Went to the site yesterday... unlike the construction drawings the contractor
infilled the area above the windows with EFIS. The FM guide Craig mentioned did
have a procedure for wall wetting which would work if I didn't need 2hr
separation.
David Toshio Williams, PE
LHB, Inc. Performance•Driven•Design
...sent from the cloud through the tubes!
On Nov 8, 2016, at 12:46 AM, Bruce Verhei
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
See Window Sprinklers in index. This line in the referenced sections is
important: .... listed window sprinkler.
Window sprinklers are installed per install sheet.
Horizontal mullions. Last time I looked, no.
And the other comment that always comes up, "it's only common sense
that the ceiling Sprinklers can be spaced a foot or two farther of the wall.
No. Window sprinklers provide zero area protection.
Best.
On Nov 7, 2016, at 11:43, David Williams
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Scott (and others),
I agree with you that this is not a matter of “actually” providing any
equivalent fire protection to a 2 hr wall. This is checking the box on a Code
requirement. That being said, I don’t see this provision significantly reducing
the hazard of a fully sprinklered skywalk running through a fully sprinklered
open parking garage, but it will make our political leaders and AHJ happy by
doing “this” and not installing fire doors at the property line.
Just trying to have a defensible(?) position on the way I approach this by
looking at the “wetting of the entire wall” portion of this. I appreciate the
feedback and all the interesting discussions that I usually just lurk around on!
David Toshio Williams, PE/FPE, LEED-AP O+M
(218) 279-2436 direct | (218) 310-2446 cell
LHB, Inc. | PERFORMANCE DRIVEN DESIGN
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Scott Futrell
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2016 1:20 PM
To:
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Wall Wetting per IBC - 2012, Chapter 31, 3104.5 Exception 1
David,
I’ll stand by what I wrote, to the best of my knowledge there hasn’t been
testing to prove sprinklers as an effective strategy or an equivalency for
rated construction. Window sprinklers for glazing are the exception, but to
use a ‘water curtain’ in any manner in lieu of a required fire barrier, fire
separation, whatever has not been tested. And then there is still the what if
they are out of service for any reason scenario? It has been used and
published, but not tested.
I apologize if I’m not following…
Scott
Office: (763) 425-1001 x 2
Cell: (612) 759-5556
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of David Williams
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2016 10:52 AM
To:
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Wall Wetting per IBC - 2012, Chapter 31, 3104.5 Exception 1
I will note we don’t even have glazing in the walls in question.
On a previous job at a community college for an after the install wall upgrade,
we used Firelite in the entry doors where we couldn’t get sprinklers to work,
window sprinklers where we have glazing and “closely spaced” sprinklers as that
was the Code language we were working with..
David Toshio Williams, PE, LEED-AP O+M
(218) 279-2436 direct | (218) 310-2446 cell
LHB, Inc. | PERFORMANCE DRIVEN DESIGN
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Roland Huggins
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2016 10:38 AM
To:
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Wall Wetting per IBC - 2012, Chapter 31, 3104.5 Exception 1
look at NFPA 13:8.15.26 - Sprinkler Protected Glazing. The wetting of the
entire surface is rather important (in order to avoid failure of the glazing
(barrier) from thermal shock. It, I believe, originated in the Life Safety
Code (which long ago allowed an exception using sprinklers with glass but
limited to Atriums) with the said ENTIRE SURFACE specified.
Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering
American Fire Sprinkler Assn. --- Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives
Dallas, TX
http://www.firesprinkler.org<http://www.firesprinkler.org/>
On Nov 4, 2016, at 12:44 PM, David Williams
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
We have an newly constructed open parking garage with a surrounding skywalk.
The building official is now asking for fire barriers complying with Chapter 31
between the two and the owner and architect want to deal with this using the
exception that uses fire protection sprinklers for equivalency. It appears to
me that the Code is asking us to protect the parking garage from the skywalk as
the Code says to install fire protection sprinklers on the “interior” of the
wall (which is the garage side) that fully wet the wall as a compliance path.
We already have a fully sprinklered structure, with a row of dry sprinklers
eight feet and eight feet on center away on the garage side, but the published
spray pattern for the Reliable F1FR56 upright installed by the contractor would
leave the top 3 feet of the wall unwetted.
It appears to me I would have to install an additional row of heads right along
the wall, but even then, it looks like the spray pattern shows drop off at any
sort of reasonable spacing so some parts of the wall remain unwetted. What
have others done in this situation?
<image001.png><http://www.lhbcorp.com/who-we-are/our-history/>
David Toshio Williams, PE, FPE – Senior MEP/FP Engineer
21 West Superior Street, Suite 500, Duluth, MN 55802
Direct 218.279.2436 | Cell 218.310.2446
LHBcorp.com<http://www.lhbcorp.com/>
LHB, Inc. | PERFORMANCE DRIVEN DESIGN.
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