>From past experience the annex carries no weight when it comes to standards, >that's all I'm saying. You could turn your question around and say "please >provide a reference in the standard that allows pipe to be supported from >pipe."
Brian Harris, CET BVS Systems Inc. bvssytemsinc.com<http://bvssystemsinc.com/> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ryan Labrie Sent: Monday, May 01, 2017 9:36 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Hanging Pipe off system Piping Please provide the reference that states sprinkler components cannot be supported by sprinkler components. Only interpretations of various sections have been provided so far. Ryan Labrie Fire Protection Designer Critical System Solutions, LLC 2830 Scherer Drive, Suite 300 St. Petersburg, FL 33716 Office: 727.209.5122 Fax: 727.209.5126 Cell: 813.394.3978 Email: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [CSS Logo] From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Harris Sent: Monday, May 1, 2017 8:31 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: Hanging Pipe off system Piping Just thinking out loud but with that "allowance" being made in the Annex and not in the Standard itself is it really enforceable? Brian Harris, CET BVS Systems Inc. bvssytemsinc.com<http://bvssystemsinc.com/> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Denhardt Sent: Monday, May 01, 2017 7:14 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: Hanging Pipe off system Piping I also agree. When I read Ken's comments on Friday, I thought I must have been wrong in the past because I know I have done/allowed it. I wanted to check this morning and as Ryan stated if 9.1.1.2 is satisfied, it is allowed. John John August Denhardt, P.E. Strickland Fire Protection Incorporated 4011 Penn Belt Place Forestville, Maryland 20747-4737 301.474.1136 - Office 301.343.1457 - Mobile From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ryan Labrie Sent: Monday, May 01, 2017 6:55 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: Hanging Pipe off system Piping Ken, I would have to disagree with your interpretation. I believe it is actually specifically allowed if the requirements of 9.1.1.2 are met. NFPA 13-2016/2013 A.9.1.1.8.1 2010 A9.1.1.7 The rules covering the hanging of sprinkler piping take into consideration the weight of water-filled pipe plus a safety factor. No allowance has been made of the hanging of non-system components from sprinkler piping. NFPA 13 provides the option to support sprinkler piping from other sprinkler piping where the requirement of 9.1.1.2 are met. Ryan Labrie Fire Protection Designer Critical System Solutions, LLC 2830 Scherer Drive, Suite 300 St. Petersburg, FL 33716 Office: 727.209.5122 Fax: 727.209.5126 Cell: 813.394.3978 Email: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [CSS Logo] From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Parsley Consulting Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 3:56 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: Hanging Pipe off system Piping Jerry, If I understand you correctly, in that a hanger assembly on an armover is attached only to other sprinkler piping, it is indeed contrary to the requirements of NFPA 13, 9.2.1.3, which notes: 9.2.1.3.1 Sprinkler piping shall be substantially supported from the building structure, which must support the added load of the water-filled pipe plus a minimum of 250 lb (115 kg) applied at the point of hanging, except where permitted by 9.2.1.1.2, 9.2.1.3.3, and 9.2.1.4.1. It would take a significant separation from structural engineering principals to regard other sprinkler piping as being an equivalent to the building structure. Indeed, the very next section, 9.2.1.3.2, states: 9.2.1.3.2 Trapeze hangers shall be used where necessary to transfer loads to appropriate structural members. Simply put, sprinkler piping has to be supported by the building structure. As I'm a member of the hanging and bracing committee please see the disclaimer below. sincerely, Ken Wagoner, SET Parsley Consulting 350 West 9th Avenue, Suite 206 Escondido, California 92025 Phone 760-745-6181 Visit our website<http://www.parsleyconsulting.com/> IMPORTANT NOTICE: This correspondence is not a Formal Interpretation issued pursuant to NFPA Regulations. Any opinion expressed is the personal opinion of the author and does not necessarily represent the official position of the NFPA or its Technical Committees. In addition, this correspondence is neither intended, nor should it be relied upon, to provide professional consultation or services It should be noted that the above is my opinion as a member of the NFPA Automatic Sprinkler System Hanging and Bracing Committee in accordance with the NFPA Regulations Governing Committee Projects and should therefore not be considered, nor relied upon, as the official position of the NFPA or its Committees On 04/28/2017 11:53 AM, Jerry Van Kolken wrote: We recently did a survey, and a question of legitimacy in the current installation of some piping supports came up. This system had a branchline with a drop to an arm-over that ran directly under the branchine. The arm-over is being supported by the branchline. Is this allowed? I personally think this is a bad installation but I skimmed the code and couldn't find the answer one way or other. Jerry Van Kolken Millennium Fire Protection Corp. 2950 San Luis Rey Rd. 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