Kyle: Fire departments use radios to correspond with each other in real time, and they have the means to use their own equipment to tailor the water supply exactly to their needs as they work through a fire fight. And keep in mind that they only want to use THEIR equipment to the greatest extent possible. Upon arrival, the first pumper in is going to connect to and charge the FDC. Connecting the interior attack lines to a manual standpipe entails first identifying the fire floor, then putting personnel into position to attack and selecting which hose connections will be used. Most FDs attach a gate valve to the standpipe hose valve, then open the SP valve all the way to charge “their” valve – at that time they can bleed all the air until water hits the valve. Then they close their valve to take the SP valve (which was installed by who knows who and maintained by we don’t know) out of the equation. Once their hoses are connected and they move forward on the attack, they’re connected to a water supply that they are confident CAN supply the pressure they need because their engineer is in charge of it and the SP system has been purged.
Steve Leyton From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kyle.Montgomery Sent: Friday, December 08, 2017 7:00 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Dry automatic standpipe without a pump Yeah, but what good is it to connect to a water supply that can’t supply the pressure you need? The only thing that really makes sense is that they are doing it for supervisory purposes; i.e. someone breaks a pipe or opens a valve, water starts pouring out and an alarm sounds. But couldn’t you accomplish that (alarm part) with supervisory air only for a lot less money and without the potential for water damage? -Kyle M From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gary Stites Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 3:17 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Dry automatic standpipe without a pump Item #3 says the source can be determined by the AHJ. Couldn't this arrangement (dry valve) be provided and then the water supply (pumper connection) be approved by said AHJ? Weird,but possible? Gary Stites On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 3:59 PM, Kyle.Montgomery <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: This actually does make a lot of sense. Maybe that is even what the City of Orlando intended when they wrote the code. Couldn’t you just have supervisory air for that though, without actually being connected to a water supply with a dry pipe valve? -Kyle M From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Taylor Schumacher Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 3:43 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: Dry automatic standpipe without a pump Definition/classification aside, I imagine the owner wants the connection to the water supply so as to monitor the integrity of the standpipe in case some brass bandit decided the hose valves had to be theirs or someone crashed into the piping and left it unusable. -Taylor Schumacher From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 3:49 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: Dry automatic standpipe without a pump Doesn’t the addition requiring all Class I systems to have 2 ½” x 1 ½” reducers effectively turn it into a Class III? That is if I presume it to mean valves. On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 1:33 PM Steve Leyton <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: How do you infer that? From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Kyle.Montgomery Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 1:29 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: Dry automatic standpipe without a pump That amendment seems to be poorly-worded as well. Do they allow Manual Wet standpipes in conditions that aren’t subject to freezing? Or do they prohibit all types of manual standpipes (wet or dry)? Reading between the lines a little, it does look like Orlando requires AUTOMATIC standpipes, regardless, and thus Sean is dealing with a system that would already be out of compliance. Fun! -Kyle M From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pete Schwab Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 2:06 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: Dry automatic standpipe without a pump All This is located in the City of Orlando. Although I believe it would never freeze and if it did I would have to move to San Diego, Orlando has some very specific rules that really don’t make sense but they are there. It is based on the fact that we will have temperatures below 40 degrees which violates NFPA. They have a local fire code (Chapter 24). See 24.27. They require a dry valve. In addition they prohibit manual dry standpipes. So I call this an standpipe with an inadequate automatic supply. My opinion is wet would not freeze but this is an adopted ordinance so we follow it. Pete Peter Schwab VP of Purchasing and Engineering technologies Wayne Automatic Fire Sprinklers Inc. 222 Capitol Court Ocoee, Fl 34761 Mobile: (407) 468-8248<tel:(407)%20468-8248> Direct: (407) 877-5570<tel:(407)%20877-5570> Fax: (407) 656-8026<tel:(407)%20656-8026> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1c_60jlhQXImGS0x8UN3GT53YFZhQ1WLy-LUp-Yr2mobn5JVTu_fkt-rhwwpp_JM7PlRmdLvVJ_jq1L5aA5bUDrdDxNevE6D8ALzDi6eZK1-0CVhw7v74h57HJCR5jIaFtaTqiEiLudwbt1ZWyvQxp0vYo_LA8jYOjc4IiMKwQDQcl00-7Ub2pDdhmoZ2_VGGSkskt5XVeg-JOwQoinVwBq4N0dz03DkF2iE52MM-L97waDu5RUA6GCpT0idcC_Ky/http%3A%2F%2Fhttp://secure-web.cisco.com/1Zzo9Q_BfMDjM_ikj9EuIkN1jSo_t-UWNLW_ABtvLOZ6y9s56U1VV1nIAmB3f9PFXKHlX9gREns_NFx7OxPZ0txc_zN12r0dn5ljrARhNUfGSMMvILdotWsFZYn20Pc7_rK1xOSSO5DrREqp__Sbr0cErjAd4MzsYaSU4s9uS49ewg9Xxh6PW9VKrb41SEYMhk8tjTUi3g2bI3fZbb5vZfDKvBKsy0jR5DKenuNSNTstgbfsw7oB7wY5Nr5TTxm6Uue0m2plPEDZYMxNHVbQxpA/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.waynefire.com<http://secure-web.cisco.com/1xdYrvXLkNDQOZvNvpmzAcxE008RGeIyJJvrNLi59lYkg_rkehOQHlhgjescS7gK-7sPu6_XI7Js0EWg682gaC092nkE7u-pNz5-a2id8eQEpV8dQcZkz06BU3PgSprAZfHC-vdl36HOHlXNFn3gPzwsGOzMgggsayASUw4BeQpQIouNqpIbR0KLbXUCzimXLFeLNXwu-HtsLYUBSubBGXpTsZksMNUUhPB76Lf2C9O4QHTAAM-xE9yf2_De9PAgv/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.waynefire.com%2F> I sleep in a sprinklered home, do you? From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of MFP Design, LLC Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 2:31 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: Dry automatic standpipe without a pump Definitely don’t let the past description or even system get in the way. It is what it is. If the original is wrong, the owner can go back and fix it. But there is no reason to continue an error just because it was done that way in the past. Those are the most dangerous words in this industry: “We always did it that way!” From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Tuesday, December 5, 2017 12:26 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: Dry automatic standpipe without a pump If you let that issue become your issue, then yes that’s the issue. If the “other contractor” has erroneously or deficiently described or left the work in place and the owner is relying on that, it should be an issue between those parties and not you. In other words, what is an “issue”? From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sean Lockyer Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 11:09 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: Dry automatic standpipe without a pump Understood Steve; however, when I say “a pump is needed” I am assuming that is because they would not be allowed to use the pumper on the fire truck. However, if this turns out to be, by definition, a manual standpipe then we would be able to use the pumper and as a result, this issue would most likely go away. I guess the issue here is what the original contractor defined as an automatic and what they defined as a manual. In other words, what is “is”. Sean Lockyer Project Designer 4617 Parkbreeze Court Cell 386-279-1197<tel:(386)%20279-1197> Orlando, Florida 32808 [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Phone: 407-816-9101<tel:(407)%20816-9101> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1_bUqSQn0X2ItLZjhiK8VC8_d8cPrOYY_Syyc_8cgSS_JYmSSLkZCoJWuJaUQKBTlo3Jf9eXx6c-0dtUfN1ztxYKqzAIGGCvhBjigRFEWsXNoeLVNy3X-rFo1m2Wv1r9hWnachg_uPARPKJ2n-8RlznCUFaaXU8MR5AovCZ5CGc7spy4QYQ19sK0o9mcx1xSKkuxvuRCJ_--IMoZK99MDUQmP4mahHTZasXIuQi_Ua1OukHPgHJcTmsA_ix4tPfCK/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.AITLifeSafety.com<http://secure-web.cisco.com/1ehR6VvsmdXfQf4zfvzFFlsdMQ3jUpOskpwTyyEuzgA6O_M4o4_9BaiduVexsVpLyiChX8i6JJuzCIg9DkCA5qGMi3XbFyLgoeIlx-_aVqluzomLbVs-9_POCDHksA2ykLmZrf74yv9W7eZ13uCD5LQ8G-nZ6nOfhAJe-FunppMZVrOtzo5wR2HEAcZY-WtbaY9SsPiMh-Ws7DjSFG6qnaCu1HKUPN20l79By9QNnJ2Vp6tDcjnQruM7sYYDI49We/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aitlifesafety.com%2F> Fax: 407-816-9104<tel:(407)%20816-9104> _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1F_3sEzFxihrq46DFt-IuMlEvBjOoktHpegLC-Lv6JzieCRPrlG_CYTZPjSt1AOy1eQKOyca07zBM_JyUOfHZzTT5b9IPQNx-KfUay78EcK6PvBUUKhtArx7kAtfUFvdUrI6YdJnVkspgnVYVydsmitjZm-0sRCAkMqusdMV16fS5VxlPvJAHVU9sPofeC28asqCLAcC5n-VbQBpuxGeMpE_2HsAqL33KZu8v1j8XUDzBm0yDf7OQB-drKF9yAHb9McpMI2cCL9F3e9FMDnF97w/http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org -- Sent from Gmail Mobile _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1uKC_u7Kkp0peih_YgVQ5edNs5g0FpmF0Hry1N8i8xl8gO5cBM5wqbgnA5UEYRnAruVJSkaXGMXepWtM3cjwel6-A_F2hbbzmmftxFYkECwBKsWZxjR5uf5hSLHR9JJxi7N0VVdpIE2pcAMuNvn0mpCCvwDX_0dXMuoqqb1ar6qOzfUSLWXYYDy6gxiM8aS4CqicDVvf1T7FI8FlGm1kEAI-45zZrYPIleSF0Hnenr_k2FwmUKB0sA71lOtLranQmKWaSUG_gpjSUs_wa3oAMhw/http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org<http://secure-web.cisco.com/1-ehJskrQWvspn_VLQHDARQxMuiRouclx7B9XxGHtGuAeXWg3doUKXZiM7XFFn_VdPnUWORhUV6G2HIrWeTQXNfSvi7BL8Ii8uWEfhHG9Db-eAnt-OBmaCX1MhRoC9fs-wftur0fIx4FToZqt7e5oBGdDec4nG6aZniGMopMWkxLoFrrfxSX85feXRFaZ79A8SCWJt_8HA_7N3ItcA9CsGS8er9QELnB6bgNqo8dcrq57p70nQzzp9VPMQu41TsmpQvG9pjvkMAGlyXlXOjq9Bg/http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org> -- Gary Stites 805-769-GMAN RLH<http://secure-web.cisco.com/18birFvs_uUAf68xccFG6xQttZYJTPQWKt1bc-md0t_JUJn60U2L4RoVQClZKwEg2tXG9B8lZwJDOy7Mf6qovwZvjdzc-48pjKgpcvPuC3wI20CtT8oOsSuh7K4-_kzOuHClXTYYi3s0oBmAjRrUac9alRc3RPyYUtPDT0WfOloLRV4SS1B3RwuEpmU4q5d-FpOIZABbywAqp7nAvGgzDtkvO2uUtle2b5jTEAsp9dUt5_4iPbD1Sw-N64J34SjdSKlceksxeGJjUW0r1M5yPDg/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rlhfp.com> http://secure-web.cisco.com/15R3ndoMzy8s6LhWLEc8XRGOvEK63bd5e-bWFy6oxlCPVjZprThtstc_e2OZ0ahrKw2t1dD9UVVDW5Zx6HDsGNk-bSnPxnJ0n3JrX6C7Gyy5yQA6H0c9WKVCCcExsB-nzz9MYp235fm_uGE0G5SapWplnuL-lEAdMrPgFxh5rk6BhS8xTOeqb8PRwB-9FYJZCSb16uxDzpbVG6tGOvqctqy4xMw7tgpZjdzG6As8Abl4GaIZhYLXIUVyal66UALabP52NdLZM9bX5rDI3lCxUig/http%3A%2F%2FWWW.K25.Rocks Pandora Station<http://www.pandora.com/?sc=sh43464983213902734>
_______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
