A talk with the AHJ would be better than headache later . Ed Vining 4819 John Muir Rd Martinez CA 94553 925-228-8792 [email protected]
On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 9:07 PM Kaiser, Richard via Sprinklerforum < [email protected]> wrote: > There is no conflict between the documents. > > > > The 2018 IFC commentary is indeed very explicit, but it does NOT say that > the allowable omission of sprinklers in certain areas negates the building > as being considered sprinklered throughout. In fact, it says the opposite. > > > > From 2018 IFC with Commentary: > > 903.3.1.1 NFPA 13 sprinkler systems. > > “Because installation is required to be in accordance with NFPA 13, if the > standard allows for the omission of sprinklers in any location, then the > building is still considered as sprinklered throughout.” > > > > 903.3.1.1.1 Exempt locations. > > “This section allows the omission of sprinkler protection in certain > locations if an approved automatic fire detection system is installed. > Buildings in compliance with one of the six listed conditions would still > be considered fully sprinklered throughout in compliance with the code and > NFPA 13 and thus are eligible for all applicable code alternatives, > exceptions or reductions.” > > > > *Richard* *Kaiser* PE > > > > *From:* Sprinklerforum <[email protected]> *On > Behalf Of *Prahl, Craig/GVL via Sprinklerforum > *Sent:* Thursday, October 24, 2019 1:20 PM > *To:* [email protected]; James Litvak < > [email protected]> > *Cc:* Prahl, Craig/GVL <[email protected]>; Hinson, Ryan < > [email protected]> > *Subject:* RE: [EXTERNAL] Trying to determine hydrant locations per IFC, > wondering how sprinkler coverage omissions will affect distances. > > > > In the 2018 IFC commentary the language is very explicit in that omission > of sprinklers no longer qualifies a building as being fully sprinklered and > you lose the ability to apply any allowances the code gives if the building > was fully sprinklered. > > > > Installed throughout means installed throughout. > > > > Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead/SME – Fire Protection | 864.676.5252 | > [email protected] | www.jacobs.com > > 1041 East Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606 > > > > *From:* Sprinklerforum <[email protected]> *On > Behalf Of *Hinson, Ryan via Sprinklerforum > *Sent:* Thursday, October 24, 2019 1:57 PM > *To:* James Litvak <[email protected]>; > [email protected] > *Cc:* Hinson, Ryan <[email protected]> > *Subject:* RE: [EXTERNAL] Trying to determine hydrant locations per IFC, > wondering how sprinkler coverage omissions will affect distances. > > > > James, > > > > From IBC 2018 commentary: > > *Section 202* > > *DEFINITIONS* > > *[F] AUTOMATIC SPRINKLER SYSTEM*. *An automatic sprinkler system*, for > fire protection purposes, is an integrated system of underground and > overhead piping designed in accordance with fire protection engineering > standards. The system includes a suitable water supply. The portion of the > system above the ground is a network of specially sized or hydraulically > designed piping installed in a structure or area, generally overhead, and > to which *automatic* sprinklers are connected in a systematic pattern. > The system is usually activated by heat from a fire and discharges water > over the fire area. > > - An automatic sprinkler system is one type of automatic > fire-extinguishing system. Automatic sprinkler systems are the most common, > and their life safety attributes are widely recognized. The code specifies > three types of automatic sprinkler systems: one installed in accordance > with NFPA 13, one in accordance with NFPA 13R and the other in accordance > with NFPA 13D. To be considered for most code design alternatives, a > building’s automatic sprinkler system must be installed throughout in > accordance with NFPA 13 (see Section 903.3.1.1). > > In a fire, sprinklers automatically open and discharge water onto the fire > in a spray pattern that is designed to contain or extinguish the fire. > Originally, automatic sprinkler systems were developed just for the > protection of buildings and their contents. Because of the development and > improvements in sprinkler head response time and water distribution, > however, automatic sprinkler systems are now also considered life safety > systems. Proper operation of an automatic sprinkler system requires careful > selection of the sprinkler heads so that water in sufficient quantity, at > adequate pressure and properly distributed will be available to suppress > the fire. Note that he use of the term “fire area” in the last sentence of > the definition refers to the area in which the fire is occurring, not to > the defined term “Fire area.” > > There are many different types of automatic sprinkler systems—wet pipe, > dry pipe, preaction, anti-freeze and various combinations. Sprinklers can > be pendant, upright or sidewall and can be designed for standard or > extended coverage. Additional information can be found in NFPA 13. > > > > *Section 903* > > *AUTOMATIC SPRINKLER SYSTEMS* > > > > *[F] 903.3 Installation requirements*. *Automatic sprinkler systems* > shall be designed and installed in accordance with Sections 903.3.1 through > 903.3.8. > > *[F] 903.3.1 Standards*. Sprinkler systems shall be designed and > installed in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1 unless otherwise permitted > by Sections 903.3.1.2 and 903.3.1.3 and other chapters of this code, as > applicable. > > * [F] 903.3.1.1 NFPA 13 sprinkler systems*. Where the provisions of this > code require that a building or portion thereof be equipped throughout with > an *automatic sprinkler system* in accordance with this section, > sprinklers shall be installed throughout in accordance with NFPA 13 except > as provided in Sections 903.3.1.1.1 and 903.3.1.1.2. > > - NFPA 13 contains the minimum requirements for the design and > installation of automatic water sprinkler systems and exposure protection > sprinkler systems. The requirements contained in the standard include the > character and adequacy of the water supply and the selection of sprinklers, > piping, valves and all of the materials and accessories. The standard does > not include requirements for installation of private fire service mains and > their appurtenances, installation of fire pumps, or construction and > installation of gravity and pressure tanks and towers. > > NFPA 13 defines seven classifications or types of water sprinkler systems: > wet pipe [see Commentary Figure 903.3.1.1], dry pipe, preaction or deluge, > combined dry pipe and preaction, antifreeze systems, sprinkler systems that > are designed for a special purpose and outside sprinklers for exposure > protection. While numerous variables must be considered in selecting the > proper type of sprinkler system, the wet-pipe sprinkler system is > recognized as the most effective and efficient. The wet-pipe system is also > the most reliable type of sprinkler system because water under pressure is > available at the sprinkler. Therefore, wet-pipe sprinkler systems are > recommended wherever possible. > > The extent of coverage and distribution of sprinklers is based on the NFPA > 13 standard. Numerous conditions exist in the standard where sprinklers are > specifically required and also where they may or may not be located. Once > it is determined that the sprinkler system is to be in accordance with NFPA > 13, that standard must be reviewed for installation details. For example, > exterior spaces such as combustible canopies are required to be equipped > with sprinklers according to Section 8.15.7 of NFPA 13 where the canopy > extends for a distance of 4 feet (1219 mm) or more. A 3-foot (914 mm) > combustible canopy would not require sprinklers nor would a 6-foot (1829 > mm) canopy constructed of noncombustible materials, provided there is no > combustible storage under the canopy. > > Because installation is required to be in accordance with NFPA 13, if the > standard allows for the omission of sprinklers in any location, then the > building is still considered as sprinklered throughout. For example, > Section 8.15.8.1.1 of NFPA 13 allows sprinklers to be omitted from > bathrooms in dwelling units in motels and hotels. If sprinklers are not > provided in the bathrooms because of the conditions stipulated in NFPA 13, > the building would still be considered as sprinklered throughout in > accordance with the code, NFPA 13 and the IFC. > > Exceptions for the use of NFPA 13R and 13D systems are addressed > throughout the code when exceptions based on the use of sprinklers are > provided. More specifically, if the use of these other standards is > appropriate, it will be noted within the exception. For a building to be > considered “equipped throughout” with an NFPA 13 sprinkler system, complete > protection must be provided in accordance with the referenced standard, > subject to the exempt locations indicated in Section 903.3.1.1.1. See > Commentary Figure 904.2.1 for examples of requirements modified through the > use of sprinkler systems. > > *[F] 903.3.1.1.1 Exempt locations*. Automatic sprinklers shall not be > required in the following rooms or areas where such rooms or areas are > protected with an *approved* automatic fire detection system in > accordance with Section 907.2 that will respond to visible or invisible > particles of combustion. Sprinklers shall not be omitted from a room merely > because it is damp, of fire-resistance-rated construction or contains > electrical equipment. > > 1. A room where the application of water, or flame and water, constitutes > a serious life or fire hazard. > > 2. A room or space where sprinklers are considered undesirable because of > the nature of the contents, where *approved* by the fire code official. > > 3. Generator and transformer rooms separated from the remainder of the > building by walls and floor/ceiling or roof/ceiling assemblies having a > *fire-resistance > rating* of not less than 2 hours. > > 4. Rooms or areas that are of noncombustible construction with wholly > noncombustible contents. > > 5. Fire service access elevator machine rooms and machinery spaces. > > 6. Machine rooms, machinery spaces, control rooms and control spaces > associated with occupant evacuation elevators designed in accordance with > Section 3008. > > - This section allows the omission of sprinkler protection in certain > locations if an approved automatic fire detection system is installed. > Buildings > in compliance with one of the six listed conditions would still be > considered fully sprinklered throughout in compliance with the code and > NFPA 13 and thus are eligible for all applicable code alternatives, > exceptions or reductions. Elimination of the sprinkler system in a > sensitive area is subject to the approval of the fire code official. > > Condition 1 addresses restrictions where the application of water could > create a hazardous condition. For example, sprinkler protection is to be > avoided where it is not compatible with certain stored materials (i.e., > some water-reactive hazardous materials such as calcium carbide). > Combustible metals, such as magnesium and aluminum, may burn so intensely > that the use of water to attempt fire control will only intensify the > reaction. > > It is not the intent of Condition 2 to omit sprinklers solely because of a > potential for water damage. A desire to not sprinkler a certain area (such > as a computer room or operating room) does not fall within the limitations > of the exception unless there is something unique about the space that > would result in water being incompatible. A computer room can be adequately > protected using an automatic sprinkler system or an alternative gaseous > suppression agent system or a combination of these systems. The intent of > Condition 2 is to consider whether the contents would react adversely to > the application of water. It is important to note that the fire code > official must approve the use of this item. Note also that with respect to > computer rooms, NFPA 75 (Protection of Information Technology Equipment) > (not a referenced standard) recognizes automatic sprinklers as the primary > fire protection system for computer rooms. > > Condition 3 recognizes the low fuel load and low occupancy hazards > associated with generator and transformer rooms and, therefore, allows the > omission of sprinkler protection if the rooms are separated from adjacent > areas by 2-hour fire-resistance-rated construction. This condition assumes > the room is not used for any combustible storage. This condition is similar > to Section 8.15.11.3 of NFPA 13, which exempts electrical equipment rooms > from sprinkler protection, provided the room is dedicated to the use of > dry-type electrical equipment, is constructed as a 2-hour > fire-resistance-rated enclosure, and is not used for combustible storage. > > Condition 4 requires the construction of the room or area, as well as the > contents, to be noncombustible. An example would be an area in an > unprotected steel-frame building (Type IIB construction) used for steel or > concrete block storage. Neither involves any significant combustible > packaging or sources of ignition, and few combustibles are present (see > Commentary Figure 903.3.1). > > Condition 5 addresses the concern for elevator machine rooms and machinery > spaces associated with fire service access elevators as required by > Sections 403.6.1 and 3007, for buildings with occupied floors greater than > 120 feet (36.58 m) from the lowest level of fire department access. These > elevators need to work during fire situations and their operation cannot be > threatened by the activation of a sprinkler in a machine room or space that > may affect the operation of the elevators. Fire service access elevators > are required to be continuously monitored at the fire command center in > accordance with Section 3007.7. > > Condition 6, similar to Condition 5, exempts sprinklers from the machine > rooms, machinery spaces, control rooms and control spaces for occupant > evacuation elevators. Like fire service access elevators, these elevators > need to work during fire situations and their operation cannot be > threatened by the activation of a sprinkler in machine rooms, machinery > spaces, control rooms and control spaces. Such elevators are required to be > monitored at the fire command center in accordance with Section 3008.7. > > > > Hope this helps, > > > > *Ryan L. Hinson**, PE*, SET*** \ Burns & McDonnell > > Senior Fire Protection Engineer > > *O* 952-656-3662 \ *M* 320-250-5404 \ *F* 952-229-2923 > > *[email protected] <[email protected]>* \ burnsmcd.com > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.burnsmcd.com/__;!dEgXJxch11IPYA!RT2Dan24-blBx6PbP9F5YSqsHwudRJtCo63dneAwp5Cc666fkjRZNtqDijCxSbl2lA$> > > 8201 Norman Center Drive, Suite 300 \ Bloomington, MN 55437 > > *Registered in: LA, MD, MN, PA, TX, & UT > > **NICET IV - Water-Based Systems Layout > > > > *From:* Sprinklerforum <[email protected]> *On > Behalf Of *James Litvak via Sprinklerforum > *Sent:* Thursday, October 24, 2019 12:14 PM > *To:* Prahl, Craig/GVL <[email protected]> > *Cc:* James Litvak <[email protected]>; > [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [EXTERNAL] Trying to determine hydrant locations per IFC, > wondering how sprinkler coverage omissions will affect distances. > > > > Interesting. I don't have access to a copy of the Code and Commentary. > Would you be able to copy/paste the relevant section, or tell me where to > find it? I will try to get access to it. > > Thanks. > > > > On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 12:35 PM Prahl, Craig/GVL <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Nope, the omission of sprinklers by any means or allowances null and voids > the “sprinklered throughout” classification. That is addressed within the > IBC Commentary. Just had this discussion on a project myself. > > > > It is the same if you substitute a clean agent for sprinklers in an area. > No longer considered sprinklered throughout. > > > > > > > > Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead/SME – Fire Protection | 864.676.5252 | > [email protected] | www.jacobs.com > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http*3A*2F*2Fwww.jacobs.com*2F&data=02*7C01*7Crhinson*40burnsmcd.com*7Ce32d5bc887a341f2e32708d758a5924a*7Cbfbb9a2b6d994e78b3c795005d555c8b*7C0*7C0*7C637075340466060912&sdata=hvSGYJcGlCnfvsXoOBaFMYhCH4mN5A9nvyQMHKaHSgM*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!dEgXJxch11IPYA!RT2Dan24-blBx6PbP9F5YSqsHwudRJtCo63dneAwp5Cc666fkjRZNtqDijBwRS198A$> > > 1041 East Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606 > > > > *From:* Sprinklerforum <[email protected]> *On > Behalf Of *James Litvak via Sprinklerforum > *Sent:* Thursday, October 24, 2019 12:18 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Cc:* James Litvak <[email protected]> > *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Trying to determine hydrant locations per IFC, > wondering how sprinkler coverage omissions will affect distances. > > > > I'm working on a manufacturing facility that is building type IIB. Per the > fire-flow requirement of 8,000 gpm, the average spacing of hydrants will > need to be 200 feet, per IFC Table C102.1. However, note f will allow a > 50-percent spacing increase if "the building is equipped *throughout* with > an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1 of the > *International > Fire Code*" (emphasis mine). The reason I bolded throughout is because > approximately 2/3 of the building has sprinklers omitted in accordance with > exceptions from Section 903.3.1.1. So my question is, if Section 903.3.1.1 > is being followed such that it is being applied throughout the building, > and the areas of the building that aren't being sprinklered are allowed by > that section, does this count as "equipped throughout"? > > > ------------------------------ > > > NOTICE - This communication may contain confidential and privileged > information that is for the sole use of the intended recipient. 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