Thanks everyone for the information. I figured it couldn’t be as simple as a paint spray booth. I will check with the specifying engineer for more information. They didn’t mention the dust collector on their initial basis of design. It was added as an alternate to our contract. My first concern was that the collector itself was outside the building which would require a dry system which wasn’t figured.
Dewayne Martinez Fire Protection Design Manager *TOTAL* *Mechanical* *Building* *Integrity* W234 N2830 Paul Rd. Pewaukee, WI 53072 dmarti...@total-mechanical.com Ph: 262-522-7110 Cell: 414-406-5208 http://www.total-mechanical.com/ [image: cid:image003.png@01D4F47B.AA7F2100] *From:* Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> *On Behalf Of *Prahl, Craig/GVL via Sprinklerforum *Sent:* Monday, February 24, 2020 11:04 AM *To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org *Cc:* Prahl, Craig/GVL <craig.pr...@jacobs.com> *Subject:* RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Combustible dust collector When NFPA 654 refers back to NFPA 13, the only section dealing with protection of ducts conveying hazardous material is in the Special Occupancy section under *Spray Application Using Flammable or Combustible Materials* as you mentioned. It also wasn’t stated what type of dust as that can also play a role in the protection scheme. Sprinklers might not be feasible or of any value, an explosion prevention/suppression system may be more of what is proper. I typically throw it back to the process engineers to analyze the material being conveyed, the system design, design conditions and along with the system manufacturer, they provide a recommendation on how best to protect the system. The ductwork is not the only part that may need sprinklers, the bag house is quite often filled with filter material that is combustible regardless of what is being conveyed through it. Also, be sure the material being conveyed won’t adversely react to water. I had an issue where a contractor and the owner chose sprinklers in the duct, no one asked about system temperatures or material being conveyed and sprinklers went off during a high temp event (not fire) and mixed with the accumulated dust material which basically turned to glue. Shut down the system and rendered it irreparable. Gotta do some homework with these kinds of systems, it’s not just a “install sprinklers per NFPA 13” kind of deal. Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead/SME – Fire Protection | 864.676.5252 | craig.pr...@jacobs.com | www.jacobs.com 1041 East Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606 *From:* Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> *On Behalf Of *Bruce Verhei via Sprinklerforum *Sent:* Monday, February 24, 2020 11:35 AM *To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org *Cc:* Bruce Verhei <bver...@comcast.net> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: Combustible dust collector Flamex has been around for several decades, I believe under a couple different corporate ownerships. It is not a new technology. I’m more used to seeing as part of an overall dust explosion control system. Usually I’ve worked with a mechanical engineer whose specialty is dust explosion control. Most common is the pair of spark detection, spark suppression, then downstream again, spark detection. Second detection series releases abort gate. Current retroactive standards for dust systems are going into effect. Expect more discussion. ..... Stay back from abort gates. Anything that you need to reset with a come along, and trips too fast for eye to see is hazardous in its own right. Best. Bruce Verhei On Feb 24, 2020, at 08:03, Skyler Bilbo via Sprinklerforum < sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote: I have a little experience with this. I have seen a system brand called "Flamex" on the dust collection ducts. This system uses flame sensors and solenoids to extinguish a fire in the duct, which is a better system than just installing sprinklers in there. I can say that installing sprinklers in the top of the filter units is a good idea. I have seen fires in these at a couple of facilities, and the employees on one of the sites later admitted "it was a whole lot cheaper to buy the filters that aren't flame resistant, like the manufacturer recommends..." The Flamex people can be helpful if you give them a call (it is what they do). Be very careful about your liability with these systems (speaking of which, this email is by no means a substitute for an engineered fire protection system), and it is important to mention these usually have a high explosion (read: deflagration) risk, which needs to be addressed. Also, you might consider some kind of physical protection for any heads you install. I hope this was helpful, because I know how I felt when I first started going through these systems. - Skyler On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:46 AM Dewayne Martinez via Sprinklerforum < sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote: I am trying to figure out the proper design criteria for a combustible dust collector and associated duct work. NFPA 654-2020ed section 9.3.5.2 NFPA 652-2019ed section 9.8.5.3 Both refer you back to NFPA 13 There is no section on NFPA 13-2013 for dust collectors. The closest I can find is section 22.4 – spray applications using flammable or combustible materials. Anyone else have experience with this? Thanks, Dewayne Martinez Fire Protection Design Manager *TOTAL Mechanical* *Building* *Integrity* W234 N2830 Paul Rd. 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