Man, y’all are going off in all different directions. As best as I can see, there are two areas of query here that aren’t actually congruent.
If the subject has areas that are conditioned, then a wet standpipe must be installed. Areas subject to freezing shall be dry. Doesn’t matter if they are manual, automatic or semi-automatic, just wet or dry depending on subjectivity to freezing. (Yes to Travis’s comment below, supervisory air is now required for all dry standpipes.) What I’m wondering is why the initial what-if is based on automatic-wet and manual dry? Is this a high-rise building? If not, why make the wet system automatic? Once that’s resolved then… FDC (or FDC’s) can be arranged so that you pump both wet and dry, but if you do then the dry side has to be properly drained and restored to its driest-possible condition. Which may if fact be the best arrangement because the fire department will otherwise have to sort through multiple FDC’s. Now to me, that’s not too big of a challenge because all you need is love (signage, actually). But if this building experiences a fire and both wet-f and dry-served common floors, then you’re going to want an active water supply in ALL standpipes so the 1st team in can pick whatever stair they recon as the best one to use on the fire floor. So like many subjective standpipe questions, this goes back to the responding FD’s preferences and attack strategies for buildings equipped with standpipes. Pick an arrangement that is the best assimilation of value and reliability and propose it to them for consideration. The foregoing is my opinion only and does not represent NFPA or the NFPA 14 Technical Committee, nor intended to serve as an interpretation of the standard. Protection Design and Consulting Steve Leyton, President T | 619.255.8964 x 102 | www.protectiondesign.com<http://www.protectiondesign.com/> 2851 Camino Del Rio South | Suite 210 | San Diego, CA 92108 Fire Protection System Design | Consulting | Planning | Training pumping all st From: Travis Mack <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2023 9:01 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Standpipes & FDC That is from NFPA 14, 2019 edition. Check the 2016 edition. It’s there as well. Travis Mack, SET M.E.P.CAD | 181 N. Arroyo Grande Blvd. #105 I Henderson, NV 89074 www.mepcad.com<http://www.mepcad.com/> | m: 480.547.9348 AutoSPRINK | AutoSPRINK FAB | AutoSPRINK RVT | AlarmCAD Book appointment time in my calendar https://calendly.com/t_mack_mepcad From: Prahl, Craig <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2023 8:59 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Standpipes & FDC Travis, what standard or code are you referencing? I would question the requirement of providing supervisory air in a manual standpipe based on the language of 6.1.1 specifically addressing Dry standpipes. A dry standpipe and a Manual standpipe are distinctly different. Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead/SME – Fire Protection | [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> | www.jacobs.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.jacobs.com/__;!!KZTdOCjhgt4hgw!-_khxU8gU0_6jc895I7kRbnU8JghRDsWgqOblZ4jr7Qp2IVbR30VYw_hWvNFtphnl0uWpB9KIvbYi1pvZz4$> 1041 East Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606 CONTACT BY: Phone 1-864-676-5252, Email or MS TEAMS From: Travis Mack <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2023 11:49 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Standpipes & FDC All dry standpipes, including manual standpipes, are required to have supervisory air to help protect against that situation described. This was added, I believe, in the 2016 edition. This is a snip from the 2019 edition. 6.1.1 Location of Dry Standpipes. Dry standpipes shall be monitored in accordance with NFPA 72 with supervisory air pressure. ENHANCED CONTENT Collapse Standpipe systems, including standalone manual standpipes, need to be supervised to ensure proper operation and integrity of the system. Supervision can be achieved through central station, a constantly attended local station, or by a signal or local alarm at the initiating device attached to the standpipe system. Travis Mack, SET M.E.P.CAD | 181 N. Arroyo Grande Blvd. #105 I Henderson, NV 89074 www.mepcad.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.mepcad.com/__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!FsG36-XDvOQrgI_DHQGIVDG6qG0wUDytk9o-fCPhFdG51_cdUp7u8R9b_hwGMfSVSUMQZ1YdU_uNHp9p$> | m: 480.547.9348 AutoSPRINK | AutoSPRINK FAB | AutoSPRINK RVT | AlarmCAD Book appointment time in my calendar https://calendly.com/t_mack_mepcad<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/calendly.com/t_mack_mepcad__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!FsG36-XDvOQrgI_DHQGIVDG6qG0wUDytk9o-fCPhFdG51_cdUp7u8R9b_hwGMfSVSUMQZ1YdU5lRsXbX$> From: Eric Rieve <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2023 8:44 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Standpipes & FDC This makes me pretty leery. If the manual dry standpipe isn’t studiously inspected for open valves or broken pipes then when the FDC is charged you could have a huge inadvertent discharge into the manual system and potentially not be able to provide needed fire flow for the wet standpipes. I’d say you’d either need two separate FDCs, or if you go with just a single one then the manual dry standpipe would need a control valve that was immediately accessible to the Fire Dept to close off the manual standpipe if the above event occurs. Honestly I’d go with two FDC’s and just make sure you hang really good signage stating what systems they feed. Hope this helps. Eric Rieve Rieve Fire Protection From: Kyle.Montgomery <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2023 11:12 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Standpipes & FDC What if there was a check valve separating the wet from the dry, and the FDC was connected to the dry side? -Kyle M From: Craig Hanson <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2023 7:15 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] [Sprinklerforum] Re: Standpipes & FDC Brian, I agree with Travis. If you have a true dry manual then it is not connected to other systems. If you have a dry automatic then it will have its own dry pipe valve and then could be connected to the FDC through the common manifold. Craig D. Hanson, CFPS Senior Fire Plans Examiner West Coast Code Consultants, Inc. (WC³) Meridian Satellite Office C: 253.225.9977 | E: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> | www.WC-3.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.wc-3.com/__;!!Ba8_KKAT!JgEEuYYWcSGA9xERaPxkutYVaGZxzf1A3NGmorhlsRo-33V2-AFsTha0CPwYx2SjZUEdukTfjzsPXF8_pA$> Teaming With Your Community to Make a Difference On Wed, Apr 5, 2023 at 8:12 AM Brian Harris <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Travis- Great question. It’s not a job we’re working on so I don’t know the specifics, the question was just brought up in the office. Brian Harris, CET BVS Systems Inc. bvssytemsinc.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/bvssystemsinc.com/__;!!Ba8_KKAT!JgEEuYYWcSGA9xERaPxkutYVaGZxzf1A3NGmorhlsRo-33V2-AFsTha0CPwYx2SjZUEdukTfjzvi_0m_3A$> From: Travis Mack <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2023 10:10 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Standpipes & FDC Yes they can, provided it is arranged correctly. But how are you having manual and wet standpipes in the same building? Travis Mack, SET M.E.P.CAD | 181 N. Arroyo Grande Blvd. #105 I Henderson, NV 89074 www.mepcad.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http*3a*2f*2fwww.mepcad.com*2f&c=E,1,_5vJCgAl4QFHzkIIRkd9oYRYUw-ncaw2oaIpcjXfGNJ47LRTSszKbPVSY3xCtulufqJGZG3nE6qXPE4yrhDZCf0VSbfBO5dWBI2o0-pzhLUCjOSZ5nYxnaYeYBL6&typo=1__;JSUlJQ!!Ba8_KKAT!JgEEuYYWcSGA9xERaPxkutYVaGZxzf1A3NGmorhlsRo-33V2-AFsTha0CPwYx2SjZUEdukTfjzufa4SN0A$> | m: 480.547.9348 AutoSPRINK | AutoSPRINK FAB | AutoSPRINK RVT | AlarmCAD Book appointment time in my calendar https://calendly.com/t_mack_mepcad<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/calendly.com/t_mack_mepcad__;!!Ba8_KKAT!JgEEuYYWcSGA9xERaPxkutYVaGZxzf1A3NGmorhlsRo-33V2-AFsTha0CPwYx2SjZUEdukTfjzuL1RPfJA$> From: Brian Harris <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2023 7:06 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Standpipes & FDC Quick question: A parking garage has (3) standpipes. 2 are wet automatic (conditioned space) & 1 is manual dry. Can they all be fed from one FDC? Brian Harris, CET BVS Systems Inc. bvssystemsinc.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http*3a*2f*2fbvssystemsinc.com*2f&c=E,1,v1ImuXOodSkbLZC67sTeOVl5n25H7NmStHDkMra-WquXnTKQq5SGcQODBnzkfkanf-3E_swdaJZ0VcTno0eEVAtJ8mC-Yc0w1ThKRhzkkk3Mog,,&typo=1__;JSUlJQ!!Ba8_KKAT!JgEEuYYWcSGA9xERaPxkutYVaGZxzf1A3NGmorhlsRo-33V2-AFsTha0CPwYx2SjZUEdukTfjzuMtna0lg$> Phone: 704.896.9989 Fax: 704.896.1935 _________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum mailing list: https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org__;!!Ba8_KKAT!JgEEuYYWcSGA9xERaPxkutYVaGZxzf1A3NGmorhlsRo-33V2-AFsTha0CPwYx2SjZUEdukTfjzvjUo46mQ$> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> ________________________________ NOTICE - This communication may contain confidential and privileged information that is for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any viewing, copying or distribution of, or reliance on this message by unintended recipients is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
_________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum mailing list: https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
