We regularly allowed FM Global as partial, especially for parts that had to do with controlling fire, i.e., every part of a data sheet that had to do with the fuel matrix, the storage system, how fire and jet would propagate, how heat would get to fusible part of sprinkler head, head install, including head location, flue spaces, shelving, on and on. Its not one from column A, and two from Column B. Our goal not being acceptable to FM Global for seismic design etc. If their seismic design system was used we expected review by FM or other acceptable third party. Their methodology was different enough that we couldn’t use it ourselves. Maybe you P.E.’s could wade around in it. Maybe we could have too, but we couldn’t dedicate excess time to one project. Not fair to someone else in the in-basket.
Best. Bruce > On 01/16/2024 11:32 AM PST Greg McGahan <g...@genesisfireservices.com> wrote: > > > Totally agree Ken, > I have heard repeatedly in my career that if you go FM you have to go all FM > or you are picking and choosing one aspect of a guide that is not complete. > We can't use an exception from the 2019 edition of 13 but use the rest of > the 2016 edition because it's advantageous. > > On Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 1:15 PM Ken Wagoner <k...@parsleyconsulting.com > mailto:k...@parsleyconsulting.com> wrote: > > > Kyle, > > > > I appreciate your points, and there is merit in them all. > > > > However. In the document you've referenced, FM 8-34, this little section > > is found: > > > > > 2.1.4.1 In addition to the recommendations in this data sheet, follow the > > > sprinkler, ceiling and in-rack, > > > installation guidelines indicated for Storage sprinklers in FM Global > > > Property Loss Prevention Data Sheet > > > (i.e., Data Sheet) 2-0, Installation Guidelines for Automatic > > > Sprinklers.... > > > > > And, I might point out that when it comes time to obtain insurance coverage > > for the facility, conformance with 8-34, and 2-0 will certainly be taken > > into account. > > > > My experience suggests it is a best practice to not venture into FM Global > > unless your design/layout meet all of the applicable requires, and not just > > those found at first glance in one particular data sheet. > > > > good discussion, > > Ken Wagoner, SET > > Parsley Consulting > > 500 West Mechanic Street > > Harrisonville, Missouri 64701-2235 > > Phone: (760) 745-6181 tel:(760)745-6181 > > Visit the website > > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fwww.parsleyconsulting.com%2f&c=E,1,Y5zKJKPEh1mBEBqSR-VE9cUKl5y-eyP8BpvmE_5j9ZqW2eJbNphYzrCMBZ-2YuX6d-RRkHI4gQ1FV-cvOeCfRC58uZS9NiToZv2mx7909oCqLvCW_n5hDHeK&typo=1 > > > > > > > > On 1/16/2024 12:24 PM, Kyle.Montgomery wrote: > > > > > > > > Not to be a contrarian to the contrarian, but it kind of depends on what > > > a Fire Protection Engineer and the AHJ are willing to sign off on, > > > doesn’t it? I’ve seen a lot of variances approved to allow the use of FM > > > Global design criteria for something outside of the scope of NFPA 13 > > > (warehouse buildings over 45 feet tall, for example) where they don’t > > > necessarily require the entire project to follow FM Global guidelines. > > > > > > > > > > > > In fact, to paraphrase one of my favorite pirate captains: “The FM Data > > > Sheets are more like guidelines than actual rules.” > > > > > > > > > > > > If NFPA 13 doesn’t doesn’t have a clear standard in place, then it’s > > > generally allowed to invoke the “Equivalency” section… i.e. “nothing in > > > this standard is intended to prevent the use of… methods… of equivalent > > > or superior quality.” > > > > > > > > > > > > Kyle Montgomery > > > > > > > > > > > > Aero Automatic Sprinkler Co. > > > > > > 21605 N. Central Ave. > > > > > > Phoenix, AZ 85024 > > > > > > Direct: 623.580.7820 tel:623.580.7820 > > > > > > Cell: 602.763.4736 tel:602.763.4736 > > > > > > kmontgom...@aerofire.com mailto:kmontgom...@aerofire.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Ken Wagoner <k...@parsleyconsulting.com> > > > mailto:k...@parsleyconsulting.com > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2024 10:08 AM > > > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > > > mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > > > Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: [EXTERNAL] Autostore > > > > > > > > > > > > Not to rain on the parade, or contradict Benjamin, it's worth noting that > > > when you seek to follow the guidelines in an FM Global data sheet for > > > storage, or almost anything, the entire system has to follow FM Global > > > data sheets, including system layout, hydraulic calculations, hanging, > > > seismic (if required). > > > > > > Their data sheets are wonderful, however, if you look to use one you can > > > metaphorically throw NFPA 13 right out of the window. > > > > > > sincerely, > > > > > > Ken Wagoner, SET > > > Parsley Consulting > > > 500 West Mechanic Street > > > Harrisonville, Missouri 64701-2235 > > > Phone: (760) 745-6181 tel:(760)745-6181 > > > Visit the website > > > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fwww.parsleyconsulting.com%2f&c=E,1,Y5zKJKPEh1mBEBqSR-VE9cUKl5y-eyP8BpvmE_5j9ZqW2eJbNphYzrCMBZ-2YuX6d-RRkHI4gQ1FV-cvOeCfRC58uZS9NiToZv2mx7909oCqLvCW_n5hDHeK&typo=1 > > > > > > > > > > > > On 1/16/2024 10:40 AM, Troy Schieckoff wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 16, 2024 10:28, Ben Young <derblitzkrie...@gmail.com> > > > > mailto:derblitzkrie...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try FM global 8-34 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Benjamin Young > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 11:26 AM Troy Schieckoff > > > > > <trilliumf...@cwisp.ca mailto:trilliumf...@cwisp.ca> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 16, 2024 10:21, "Prahl, Craig" <craig.pr...@jacobs.com > > > > > > mailto:craig.pr...@jacobs.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this the one that is basically a huge cubed matrix with the > > > > > > > robots running along the top? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Fire Protection SME – Special Hazards | > > > > > > > craig.pr...@jacobs.com mailto:craig.pr...@jacobs.com | > > > > > > > www.jacobs.com > > > > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.jacobs.com/__;!!KZTdOCjhgt4hgw!-_khxU8gU0_6jc895I7kRbnU8JghRDsWgqOblZ4jr7Qp2IVbR30VYw_hWvNFtphnl0uWpB9KIvbYi1pvZz4$ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1041 East Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606 > > > > > > > https://www.google.com/maps/search/1041+East+Butler+Road%C2%A0%C2%A0+Greenville,+South+Carolina%C2%A0+29606?entry=gmail&source=g > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CONTACT BY: Phone 1-864-676-5252 tel:1-864-676-5252, Email or MS > > > > > > > TEAMS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Troy Schieckoff <trilliumf...@cwisp.ca > > > > > > > mailto:trilliumf...@cwisp.ca> > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2024 10:39 AM > > > > > > > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > > > > > > > mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > > > > > > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] [Sprinklerforum] Autostore > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Has anyone designed an ESFR system for the automated robotic > > > > > > > storage system know as Autostore? Seems to be very little info > > > > > > > and NFPA doesn't really address this type of storage arrangement. > > > > > > > Any info would be welcomed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Troy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > NOTICE - This communication may contain confidential and > > > > > > > privileged information that is for the sole use of the intended > > > > > > > recipient. Any viewing, copying or distribution of, or reliance > > > > > > > on this message by unintended recipients is strictly prohibited. > > > > > > > If you have received this message in error, please notify us > > > > > > > immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your > > > > > > > computer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > > > > SprinklerForum mailing list: > > > > > > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > > > > > > To unsubscribe send an email to > > > > > > sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org > > > > > > mailto:sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > SprinklerForum mailing list: > > > > > > > > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe send an email to > > > > sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org > > > > mailto:sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > SprinklerForum mailing list: > > > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > > > To unsubscribe send an email to > > > sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org > > > mailto:sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > SprinklerForum mailing list: > > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to > > sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org > > mailto:sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org > > > > > -- > > Greg McGahan > > Genesis Fire Services, LLC > > 4912 Glover Lane. Milton, FL 32570 > > P- 850-637-8535 tel:850-637-8535 > > C- 850-712-9555 tel:850-712-9555 > > > _________________________________________________________ > SprinklerForum mailing list: > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > To unsubscribe send an email to sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org >
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