Yes, yours is the kind of situation Andl is aimed at. It does most of that stuff, but it's not ready for prime time yet. It's amazingly good at doing complex queries in just a few lines of code, but it lacks the external connections for it to be used for real applications.
I don't really understand the 'row access' or 'multiple row sets' in terms of the need being filled, and what Andl has to do to meet it. Hopefully this will come out if and when people try to use it to do real work. Regards David M Bennett FACS Andl - A New Database Language - andl.org -----Original Message----- From: sqlite-users-bounces at mailinglists.sqlite.org [mailto:sqlite-users-boun...@mailinglists.sqlite.org] On Behalf Of Marc L. Allen Sent: Thursday, 18 June 2015 11:51 PM To: General Discussion of SQLite Database Subject: Re: [sqlite] Mozilla wiki 'avoid SQLite' I don't understand all the issues with SQL as it is today. I doubt I'm at the level of most of the posters in this group. However, I do write a mess of it so I thought I'd give my two cents as a programmer. For what it does, SQL does it really well. That is, it takes a couple of sets of data, links them together and returns a set of data with given relations. But, that's just not enough. Recursive SQL is one of the best things to happen to SQL, though the syntax is rather wonky. But, I think it's done that way because SQL is NOT a programming language and we keep trying to turn it into one. Ok.. not turn it into one, per say, but we want to, quite often, do programming-like work on the data as part of the 'linking' process. This is especially prevalent in the systems supporting stored procedures. Personally, I find it a pain to combine SQL and programming in code. First, I have to generate the SQL, then I have to do whatever is necessary to iterate over the result set, often requiring additional SQL and additional iteration. So, if SPs are available, I tend to put a lot of logic in them and, frankly, SQL and it's variants really aren't good at that. Furthermore, the SQL environment is not part of the controlling programming environment and that causes additional problems. It's also slow to go back and forth, especially when the application and database are separated. I guess, at the end, is that I need a data language that has both set operations and iteration operations. I would want a language or construct that gives me row access during the operations so that I can finely tune the actions. Sort of an OnRow() function that works for all SQL operations. Also, the ability to split the incoming row set into multiple row sets for different purposes. Also... (insert weird data flow operation that doesn't exist natively). As I read back through this, I realize how poorly stated it is. But, I'm going to post it anyhow. Maybe someone will say, "Hey, stupid... *this* exists.. try it." Heck, maybe Andl does it. I haven't looked. Marc -----Original Message----- From: sqlite-users-bounces at mailinglists.sqlite.org [mailto:sqlite-users-bounces at mailinglists.sqlite.org] On Behalf Of da...@andl.org Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 6:36 AM To: 'General Discussion of SQLite Database' Subject: Re: [sqlite] Mozilla wiki 'avoid SQLite' I agree. It would be relatively easy to produce a new language with a syntax based on SQL, which was superficially familiar, but there are many necessary differences at the lower levels. One issue where bullet biting is needed is nulls and three-valued logic; another is duplicate rows and nameless or duplicate columns. The type system needs a complete overhaul too. C was a clean, polished and quite small language; SQL is none of those. And the biggest thing? Most SQL is used as a data sub-language, but the need is for a complete database programming language and a way out of the ORM mess. You can't get that from putting a layer on top of SQL. Regards David M Bennett FACS Andl - A New Database Language - andl.org -----Original Message----- From: sqlite-users-bounces at mailinglists.sqlite.org [mailto:sqlite-users-boun...@mailinglists.sqlite.org] On Behalf Of Darren Duncan Sent: Thursday, 18 June 2015 5:29 PM To: General Discussion of SQLite Database Subject: Re: [sqlite] Mozilla wiki 'avoid SQLite' I disagree with the idea that a good SQL alternative would just be a superset of SQL as you propose. That has already been done numerous times, the principal manifestations being each SQL DBMS that has its own small or large differences in syntax and features from each other. SQL is already a very complex language due in part to most of its features each having their own custom syntax, often several variations per feature to boot, as well as lots of arbitrary limitations or specified inconsistent behaviors, a lot of these for keeping backwards compatibility with various old or vendor-specific ways of doing things. What a good SQL alternative would actually be is a much more self-consistent and less redundant than SQL. It would still have all of SQL's expressive power and features so that any SQL code can be translated to it, including automatically, without too much circumlocution. That is how you would simplify the transition and re-utilization of existing code. The good alternative would actually be easier for a DBMS to implement also without losing any power. -- Darren Duncan On 2015-06-17 11:52 PM, ajm at zator.com wrote: > Indeed, I'm agree with Darren, and continuing its thought, perhaps that > hypothetical new language would be a clean extensi?n of SQL in the same way > that C++ was respect to C, simplifying the transition and reutilization of > legacy code. > > Cheers. > > -- > A.J. Millan >> >> ---- Mensaje original ---- >> De: <david at andl.org> >> Para: "'General Discussion of SQLite >> Database'"<sqlite-users at mailinglistssqlite.org> >> Fecha: Thu, 18 Jun 2015 14:50:40 +1000 >> Asunto: Re: [sqlite] Mozilla wiki 'avoid SQLite' >> >> The question for now is: does a new database programming language >> have a place? _______________________________________________ sqlite-users mailing list sqlite-users at mailinglists.sqlite.org http://mailinglists.sqlite.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users _______________________________________________ sqlite-users mailing list sqlite-users at mailinglists.sqlite.org http://mailinglists.sqlite.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sqlite-users This email and any attachments are only for use by the intended recipient(s) and may contain legally privileged, confidential, proprietary or otherwise private information. 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