On 01/08/2025 16:22, David Chisnall wrote:
On 31 Jul 2025, at 02:57, Miroslav Lachman <000.f...@quip.cz> wrote:
I would also like to separate it. Use one command to update (upgrade)
3rd party packages and another to update (upgrade) base packages. It
is our workflow for the last 25+ years thus running one command to
update both is really unexpected and unwanted.
I disagree here. If you *want* to separate them, then you can: you can
specify the repository that you want to upgrade explicitly. But if you
do then you risk things like:
- I’ve upgraded my base system, but not my ports-kmods things, so now
my GUI doesn’t start.
- I’ve upgraded ports, but the ports tree is built on a newer point
release and I need to upgrade to make some symbols exist.
- I’ve upgraded the base system and now some kmods from ports don’t work.
All of these are things that users have complained about publicly in the
last year or so.
I have avoided them by always doing `freebsd-update install && pkg
upgrade` and keeping that in my shell history[1] so I don’t accidentally
forget to upgrade both together.
Given a choice between a thing that works for users, or something that
*can* work for users but comes with a bunch of footguns that they need
to avoid, I’d pick the former.
David
[1] I’ve noticed on fresh installs, the default shell no longer has
working persistent history, which is a *big* POLA violation, if people
want to complain about something.
I see your point, but our workflow is much different. One command to
upgrade base and packages at the same time is like "one to break it all"
to me.
I have seen broken "pkg upgrade" so many times... but it never breaks
base and running ssh so I am still able to fix it somehow..
Running FreeBSD for more than 25 years on tens of machines (headless
servers) and I never need to do upgrade of base and packages at the same
time. I am not saying nobody need it. Yes it can be useful on upgrading
desktops or other installations with kmods, but I think it still can be
done in 2 separate steps to keep the base untouched if user wants it.
Mainly when there is another step needed - etcupdate. Having base and
packages upgraded and only then fixing conflicts with etcupdate seems
very bad idea to me.
Kind regards
Miroslav Lachman
