Guus. Good day. On Thu, 28 Aug 2025 10:21:38 +0200 Guus der Kinderen <[email protected]> wrote:
> Moving away from GitHub will take a not-to-be-underestimated amount of > effort and dedication. A couple of years ago, there was an experiment > with moving away from GitHub to GitLab. Quite some effort has been > put into that, but in the end, it didn't take off. The remnants are > still accessible at https://gitlab.com/xsf > > My estimation is that we have less volunteer-resources available > today. As such, I don't see how we would realistically pull off a > migration, let alone start to maintain that new infrastructure. I'm > happy to be proven wrong. > If that is the issue, then I would advise to publicize an offer over XMPP.org and asking for volunteers for that specific concern. I might join to that effort. Schimon > As I am skeptical that this will ever successfully happen, I urge > Board to find a compromise (with regards to Florian's -1 vote) to let > the item under vote pass. Please decouple the effort to improve the > workload in existing processes (which is taxing people that have been > and still are volunteering today) from a migration effort. One should > not need to block the other. > > - Guus > > On Thu, Aug 28, 2025 at 8:51 AM Ralph Meijer <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > On 28 August 2025 02:35:04 CEST, Elle < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > >- The communications platform *is* apolitical. It does not > > >distinguish > > between "bad" things (like enabling C&C systems for malware) and > > "good" things (like rapid triage of pressure sores). So people use > > it for both. > > > > > >We'll just have to agree to disagree here. My point about OMEMO is > > >that > > the UK and a number of other countries have just passed legislation > > that aims to backdoor all E2EE communication platforms. Like it or > > not, refusing to backdoor OMEMO will become an explicitly political > > position, along with its current technical and ethical > > underpinnings. > > > > > >Regardless of its applied usage, the point is like you said for > > >the > > server operators / protocol to be ignorant of the contents of E2EE > > messages. While there may be attacks outside the protocol, the XSF > > is entering into an ethical stance that it will not knowingly > > compromise the security of OMEMO. At least, I hope XSF makes this > > commitment."" > > > > > >The "Four Horseman of the Cryptocalypse" is a classic line of > > >argument, > > I'm sure you're aware, used to strip people of their civil > > liberties/rights, in the name of the "good" guys protecting from > > the "bad" guys. > > > > > >My point is, XSF may be apolitical regarding the usage of the > > >protocol > > (and I really question that), but the choices around > > infrastructure, Code of Conduct, Bylaws, software license, etc are > > all political-social-ethical choices at some level. Maybe not > > primarily, but at some level these choices have implications in > > those realms. > > > > First off, while the XSF is currently the major focus point of > > concerted protocol development for, and promoting the use of, XMPP, > > it is not the end all and be all of all things XMPP. The core > > protocols are defined over at the IETF, and you'll find it has a > > similar approach to try and keep its workings as neutral as > > possible. Also, the protocol *and* the community are intentionally > > distributedly extensible. That means that stuff can, and does, > > happen outside of the XSF. > > > > Second you are correct that nothing is absolute, including views on > > political, social, or ethical topics. My job as a director, and > > chair, is finding the delicate balance between the personal views > > of individuals in the XSF Membership and the XMPP community in > > general, and the stated goals of the XSF. Our mission statement > > (<https://xmpp.org/about/xsf/mission/>) is quite clear on the > > position the XSF takes. We also expanded this in our procedures > > (e.g. <https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0001.html>) and design > > guidelines (<https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0134.html>). > > > > Your concern with regard to OMEMO can be held to all those > > documents, just as I use them to guide my work as a director. Also > > note that we have already been the target of related pressure, and > > will continue to push back. > > > > Again I want to stress that the XMPP community includes people not > > just rooted in FOSS and its varied(!) political leanings, but > > equally from corporations, non-profits, education, government, > > supranational organisations, and military organizations. > > > > This all is why trying to elicit a specific response with the casual > > mentioning of a major geopolitical event is not helpful to me, and > > why I made the general stance on my approach. > > > > -- > > ralphm > > _______________________________________________ > > Standards mailing list -- [email protected] > > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > > _______________________________________________ Standards mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
