it exists in a form in which a portion will vaporize easily especially if 
chlorine is present. But at 350c you won't lose much from the char. 

T R Miles Technical Consultants Inc.
[email protected]
Sent from mobile. 

On Oct 15, 2011, at 10:25 PM, Paul Olivier <[email protected]> wrote:

> Tom,
> 
> I am not sure if I understand all that you are saying here.
> I thought that the potassium compounds melt at 350 C and vaporize at 
> substantially higher temperatures.
> If most of the K stays in the char, then it does not vaporize at 350 C.
> Is this correct?
> 
> Paul
> 
> On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Tom Miles <[email protected]> wrote:
> The actually exists as KOH and vaporize starting at about 350 and increasing 
> in greater proportions as you increase temperature. Once it vaporizes it 
> condenses quickly with chlorine or sulfur, if present. Only when it is hot 
> enough (750 C or higher) will it begin to melt, especially If it is present 
> with silica in a ratio of about 1:2. Husk silica is more resistant than straw 
> silica to alkali silicate formation. I would think the most of the K will 
> stay in the char. If you get K volatilization you will see it where you burn 
> the gas. Over time you’ll get agglomeration of very fine (submicron like 
> cigarette smoke) particles that we call an alkali fume. At such low fuel 
> rates you’re not likely to see anything for some time.    
> 
>  
> 
> Using the rice husk as a pilot fuel for the coffee husk makes a lot of sense. 
> You’ll get a clean gas and a rich husk char.
> 
>  
> 
> Tom
> 
>  
> 
> From: [email protected] 
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Paul Olivier
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 5:17 PM
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] why does coffee husk biochar smell like urine?
> 
>  
> 
> Frans,
> 
> When subjected to temperatures greater than 350 C, 
> are you saying that K2O melts but does not vaporize?
> Are you saying that we end up with melted K2O?
> If the original coffee husks contains 36% to 38%
> then the final biochar must contain at least twice that amount.
> If this is correct, then coffee husk biochar must be quite valuable,
> not only as a soil amendment but also as a fertilizer.
> Surely this cannot be right.
> 
> The coffee husk contains some sort of oily substance
> that begins to volatilize at temperatures as low as 170 C.
> When gasified it produces a lot of black soot.
> I tried many burner designs in the last few weeks to get rid of the soot and 
> to turn orange flames into blue.
> Supplying hot premixed secondary air does not effectively consume this soot.
> Sometimes it makes things worse.
> 
> A few days ago I cheated.
> I mixed coffee husks and rice hulls in equal volumes.
> (Note that the coffee husk has a bulk density of 180 kg/m3,
> while the rice husk has a bulk density of about 100 kg/m3.)
> The flame at the base was blue and white.
> This is the first time I saw the color white in the gasification of coffee 
> husks.
> As the flame rose, it split into two parts:
> one part vertical and the other part more horizontal.
> The vertical part was blue/white and the more horizontal part was orange.
> But there were no streaks of black within the orange part of the flame and no 
> visible soot.
> 
> The gasifier that I used looked like this:
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Gasifier%20Drawings%20PDF/001%20-%20150%20Gasifier%20Assembly.pdf
> Note the burner design: 
> it is a Belonio burner with two rings of burner holes, together with a burner 
> housing.
> This burner design gives by far the best result.
> Secondary air is sucked up between the housing and the burner.
> It then moves from vertical to horizontal,
> and from here it hits the two rings of holes that are offset from one another.
> 
> The best result, of course, is with 100% rice husks.
> With the current burner design, the flame is totally blue right from the very 
> beginning.
> 
> When I mixed rice hulls with coffee husks (half/half by volume),
> not only does most of the soot disappear, 
> but the burn is quite consistent and steady from beginning to end.
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
> On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 5:35 AM, Frans Peeters <[email protected]> 
> wrote:
> 
> Dear Paul ,
> 
>  
> 
>    I did many times fusions with pure KOH .
> 
> At 350° C it melts and is very aggesive to dissolve ceramics Al2O3 and SiC 
> powders . (Diamond recup. )
> 
> It is verry verry  hygroscopic and the hydroxyde airosols with water in the 
> air gives your nose sense alcalic .
> 
> Your brain makes the link to urine . but not the real potasium make it .
> 
> It goes not into gas  but sputers airosols has a special creep effect out of  
>  a creuset .! Even after cooling .
> 
> Also a battery  and fuel cel with KOH . It creeps in a isolated conductor for 
> 20 cm after years ,and destroys manny apparati .
> 
> KOH Is colourless but Nickel gives  yellow.salts .
> 
> It does not become K2O2 becouse to destroy SiC we must ad Na2O2 to oxydize 
> the carbide .
> 
> Potasium is to measure with flame spectro 440 um purple colour in a hydrogen 
> flame . (Sodium =yellow . Cupper =green Sr =red
> 
> Sorry ,I drink no coffe !            But have a friend who drinks pee ….
> 
>  
> 
> Regards
> 
> Frans
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Van: [email protected] 
> [mailto:[email protected]] Namens Paul Olivier
> Verzonden: zaterdag 15 oktober 2011 9:07
> Aan: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> CC: Will Rutherford; loren cardeli; CHRISTA ROTH
> Onderwerp: [Stoves] why does coffee husk biochar smell like urine?
> 
>  
> 
> Christa,
> 
> Do you have any idea why coffee husk biochar smells like urine?
> 
> I just read that coffee husks contain 36% to 38% K2O.
> This supposedly accounts for the low melting point of its ash.
> That its ash has a low melting point makes sense to me,
> since, if I leave the fan on a bit too long after the gasification cycle is 
> finished,
> I see a stony yellowish/white ash at the bottom of the reactor.
> 
> How is this possible that coffee husks could have so much K2O?
> What happens to the K2O when it is subjected to heat?
> I see that K2O has a melting point > 350C.
> If subjected to heat does it turn into K2O2 or even KO2?
> At what point does it turn into a gas?
> 
> Does the presence of K2O account for its urine smell?
> What does this urine smell mean with regard to the value of coffee husk 
> biochar?
> Would coffee husk biochar be rich in potassium?
> 
> Paul
> -- 
> Paul A. Olivier 
> 27C Pham Hong Thai Street
> Dalat
> Vietnam
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Paul A. Olivier PhD
> 27C Pham Hong Thai Street
> Dalat
> Vietnam
> 
> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
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> 
> -- 
> Paul A. Olivier PhD
> 27C Pham Hong Thai Street
> Dalat
> Vietnam
> 
> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
> Skype address: Xpolivier
> http://www.esrla.com/
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