Hello Kevin: This seems quite odd to me. I would not expect animals to
want to ingest char however I shall add a few chunks into the chicken
pen and watch for the results. I would not expect the char to act like
oyster shell or grit in the crop but to be honest I do not know so I
shall observe and I have one rooster isolated for the next family dinner
so I can feed some into his pen and if he ingests it I will examine the
crop when he is killed to see how it "looks" compared to the stones and
grain normally seen. Regards, Gerrie
Regards, Gerrie Baker, aka The Worm Lady
Dedicated to delivering organic waste solutions through education and
demonstrations of worm composting habitats indoors and outside. Focused on
converting garbage to gardens and encouraging people to grow their own healthy
nutritious food and beautiful edible flowers.
The Worm Factory
874 Grady Road, Foley Mountain
Westport, ON K0G 1X0
613-273-7595
www.thewormfactory.ca
On 31/10/2011 7:44 PM, Kevin wrote:
Dear Tom
Given that biochar seems to be a good addition to manure and compost,
what about purposely adding it to food scraps intended for animal
feed, for the medicinal benefit that ingested charcoal may provide?
1: Is there any known detrimental effect to animals consuming charcoal?
2: Is there any reason to believe that animals would find charcoal
fines in their food as unpalatable?
3: Would chickens perhaps seek out charcoal particles as a "grit
substitute?"
If nothing else, at least manure from animals fed charcoal would
produce "pre-biocharred manure." :-)
Best wishes,
Kevin
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Tom Miles <mailto:[email protected]>
*To:* 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
<mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2011 6:17 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Stoves] [biochar-production] Re: Stoves Digest,
Vol 14,Issue 17
Frank,
I can understand that carbon in different forms degrades at
different rates. And dry AD systems are interesting.
When I add char to household food scraps it makes what appears to
be a better quality of compost. I am also aware that In the
developing world these same scraps might be used as feed. Maybe
Paul, Art, or others have had experience with adding TLUD char to
compost from food waste, litter, or manure.
Thanks
Tom
*From:*[email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of
*Frank Shields
*Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2011 1:45 PM
*To:* 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
*Subject:* Re: [Stoves] [biochar-production] Re: Stoves Digest,
Vol 14, Issue 17
Tom,
The C/N ratio is almost useless in when preparing compost
formulations contrary to what most people think. The carbon is
determined on a Total Carbon and so is nitrogen. What we really
need is available C and N and the availability changes during the
composting process. If you add wood chips to a compost they will
be there in a large part when the compost is finished -- so should
not be counted. Oils and other lipids will biodegrade quickly
lowering the pH. Then it's the slow release of carbon to available
form as the process continues. With nitrogen becoming available as
ammonia the pH goes up. It can out-gas and be lost so availability
of nitrogen should also be a continuous process. All this occurs
with in vegetative material that has wood chips added only for
porosity.
So a measure of total N and total C at the beginning has little
use and is only a guideline. Real way is to measure the Total N
and C at the beginning and again at the end to determine the C
removed as CO2 IMO. But to answer your question you might as well
test for Total N and total C to get a C/N ratio with the char
along with the wood chips.
As for food scraps; They are the hardest to compost unless well
mixed in with a lot of other materials. That because they are
readily available C and N and react fast and that causes smells
and fluctuation in pH, hugh oxygen demands making anaerobic
conditions etc. New interest is AD dry systems then aerobic
composting remaining material that have been partial stabilized.
Frank
*From:*[email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of
*Tom Miles
*Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2011 1:01 PM
*To:* 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
*Subject:* Re: [Stoves] [biochar-production] Re: Stoves Digest,
Vol 14, Issue 17
Frank
If I am taking char from a TLUD and adding it to cooking scraps
for compost do I ignore the carbon in the char when calculating
the Carbon to Nitrogen ratio?
Thanks
Tom
*From:*[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
[mailto:[email protected]]
<mailto:[mailto:[email protected]]> *On
Behalf Of *Frank Shields
*Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2011 12:05 PM
*To:* 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
*Subject:* Re: [Stoves] [biochar-production] Re: Stoves Digest,
Vol 14, Issue 17
Dear Tom,
For compost the purpose is to 'stabilize' the carbon to a point
the environment can replenish oxygen and nutrients at a rate
plants and biota is not effected. When in an ag situation we have
growers ready to supplement nutrients (nitrogen) at the ready when
plants or lab tests indicate needed. Stabilized values I like to
see is < 4 mg CO2-C / g organic matter / day. This dry weight.
But many people use 8 mg CO2-C as a stabilized value.
I think biochar is not even in the picture for nitrogen up-take or
oxygen depletion in an ag soil because they will be so low.
Perhaps over time in a non ag environment the carbon may deplete
the nitrogen - put more likely just hold the nitrogen from being
leached for later use.
Frank
*From:*[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
[mailto:[email protected]]
<mailto:[mailto:[email protected]]> *On
Behalf Of *Tom Miles
*Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2011 11:50 AM
*To:* 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
*Subject:* Re: [Stoves] [biochar-production] Re: Stoves Digest,
Vol 14, Issue 17
Crispin, Frank,
Apart from fraud, it is nice to have a general indication of how
much of the fuel will convert to a gas before burning and how much
would, in theory, remain as char. IN practice you oxidize part of
he "fixed" carbon as well.
In carbonization the volatile carbon is a useful indicator of the
extent of carbonization. We look for volatile carbon to be less
than 20% for most applications. That does not mean that all
biochar needs to be less than 20% volatile carbon. Other measures
of labile carbon would be helpful.
For biochar applications it would be useful to know how much of
the carbon is likely to be consumed by organisms and will thereby
have a demand on nitrogen or other nutrients. I have assumes that
is the volatile fraction. How much char C do you include in
calculating a C:N ration for composting, for example? If you
intend to deliver a char to a uses that will supply it's own N how
much to you have to add? How much char from stoves can you
estimate will have a demand on plant nutrients if used as biochar?
Tom
*From:*[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
[mailto:[email protected]]
<mailto:[mailto:[email protected]]> *On
Behalf Of *Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
*Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2011 1:09 PM
*To:* 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
*Subject:* Re: [Stoves] [biochar-production] Re: Stoves Digest,
Vol 14, Issue 17
Dear Frank
My main disagreement is the term Fixed Carbon and that it means
the total weigh DAF where it should be a measure of carbon in that
fraction. I will need to get over that.
I assure you that Fixed Carbon does not have a clear and
scientific meaning. I have given up hope with analyses that use
the term. That means, it is 'helpful' but not an exact measure of
anything.
It really is taken to mean the carbon that happens not to
disappear when the sample is treated in a certain way. Treat it in
another way and the 'fixed' portion changes so it is an inherent
property of the protocol times the fuel, not a property of the
fuel alone.
The coal industry is so large that they feel they can get away
with internal definitions and that makes huge problems for stovers
because we never really know what we are being handed to burn.
With biomass that has historically been the 'chemistry' of the
fuel contents. But the principal users of 'fixed carbon' are the
coal consumers like power stations. To give the DAF value of
anything is misleading because we need to know what % it is of the
fuel, not of part of the fuel.
There are many tricks played by people promoting processed fuels
that involve switching the fuel energy content numbers during the
conversation. For example, people will report the 'as received'
heat content as the fuel's heating value (which is true) and then
point out that their 'Processing' increases this to a much higher
'DAF value' showing a '60% increase in energy per kg' even though
it takes energy to remove the water and calculate out the ash.
Plain fraud. Whenever someone reports the energy content you have
to not only ask on what basis the figure was derived, but also
investigate the protocol to see if it really is what it claims to
be. Many people believe that there is free energy to be harvested
in this manner.
Regards
Crispin
------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
[email protected]
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
site:
http://www.bioenergylists.org/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
Version: 2012.0.1834 / Virus Database: 2092/4587 - Release Date:
10/31/11
_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
[email protected]
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
http://www.bioenergylists.org/
_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
[email protected]
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
http://www.bioenergylists.org/
