Thats certainly the case Richard coz the chloride component is washed away on briquetting. Hence, explains the halogen (copper wire) test.
Cheers Sarbagya On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 2:26 PM, Richard Stanley <[email protected]>wrote: > Paul et al., > When Fransic kavita a thousands miles form any discussion son this list, > prepares a smokeless briquette ot of co=w or elphant or camle dung he is > washing out much of the non fibrous solids. The dung is in other words no > longer pure dung but a densified collection of largely just the fibers > contained in dung. He figured out the optimal content by "feel" but what > dos he know with his 4th grade education eh ? > > How we combine these diverse approaches with a fair representation in this > numeralised reductionist world but combine them we must. > > Richard Stanley > www.legacyfound.org > > > On Mar 18, 2012, at 1:31 PM, Paul S. Anderson wrote: > > Dear Sarbagya, Ron and all, > > 1. So you had contact with the Univ of Adelaide fellows!!! Great guys who > attended the BEF Stove Camp in Australia about a year ago. Please share > with us any and all of their reports, plus your work. > > 2. Seems you are not at U of Adelaide any longer, correct? What > university are you with? > > 3. Now that we know you are using a Servals Champion TLUD, there can be > comparative data from Servals and also from a study done in Nepal a couple > of years back. I assume that you have that report? And we ask Sujatha and > Rajan at Servals to provide other data if available. > > 4. I agree with Ron that the word "burn" should be avoided. Better to > use pyrolyzed, and char-gasification and some term for "complete combustion > of the fuel" (meaning both the pyrolysis and the char-gasification that > results in only ash remaining). > > 5. You wrote: > > We experimented by burning about 290 grams of dung briquettes. This took > a total of 7 minutes to boil 1.5 l of water as opposed to using 325 grams > of unwashed dung to boil the same amount of water in 21 minutes. The type > of stove used to conduct this experiment was a traditional 2 pot mud stove. > > Something seems out of wack here, and suggests replication is needed. The > moisture content of BOTH fuels should be noted. And I doubt that the > traditional 2-pot mud stove will give very consistent results. The > unwashed dung is only 10% more weight but burned for three times as long. > And accomplishd the same task of boiling 1.5 liters of water. Too many > unclear issues to simply accept those numbers. > > 6. Also, is what is washed from dung better, same, or worse for energy > content than what is left in the washed dung? This has probably been > studied, but I do not know that answer. Anybody? > > Clearly your study has attracted the interest of some on this Stoves > Listserv. Please keep us posted, and tell us you timetable for main parts > of your work. > > Paul > > Paul S. Anderson, PhD > Known to some as: Dr TLUD Doc Professor > Phone (USA): 309-452-7072 SKYPE: paultlud Email: [email protected] > www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/giz2011-en-micro-gasification.pdf (excellent ref.) > My website specific for TLUD information: www.drtlud.com = > www.DrTLUD.com > > > Quoting SARBAGYA TULADHAR <[email protected]>: > > > Hi Ron, > > > > I have not yet got to the stage of optimizing stove features as yet. > However, I am working on the secondary air inlets for the combustion of the > gases inside the combustion chamber which would aid in the heat transfer to > the cooking pot. Well, we did conduct experiments on "combusting" the dung. > We also did the dung briquettes. The dung cakes in its raw form (without > briquetting) yields a lumpy form of ash which does not break down thus > posing problems in the combustion chamber as blocks the entry of primary > air. However, the community used this ash-form to washing their dishes and > also as a manure in the fields. With the dung briquettes, the ash form was > no more lumpy and thus was not blocking the entry of primary air. Dung > briquetting yielded an amazing find as the liquid content on "dung washing" > could be used as fertilizers in the fields thus improving soil altogether. > > > > We experimented by burning about 290 grams of dung briquettes. This took > a total of 7 minutes to boil 1.5 l of water as opposed to using 325 grams > of unwashed dung to boil the same amount of water in 21 minutes. The type > of stove used to conduct this experiment was a traditional 2 pot mud stove. > > > > Cheers > > > > Sarbagya > > > > On 18/03/2012, at 12:21 PM, [email protected] wrote: > > > >> Sarbagya and list: > >> > >> I tried googling for your project and found something almost a year > ago from Josh Wilkey on this list. I think we can help you a lot more if > your team has produced a report. Since you are doing CFD, it would be > helpful to know what you have been learning from that. Have you optimized > anything yet? > >> > >> Since you are using the Servals unit and only getting 12 minutes at a > time, it is obvious that you need to densify. - which presumably means > pelletizing. Since you are intending operations in Nepal, and maybe rural > Nepal, maybe you have discarded that option. But I would look > >> > >> You scare me when you use a sentence like this (from below - and > similar was used by Josh): > >> "So what could be the heat output from burning 1 kg. of dung." > >> Are you truly "burning" - which I take to mean no char output? > >> Can you give us some more ideas on what you have already learned from > your experiments? Are you getting (or could you obtain) about 25% char yiel > >> You asked below about energy content of the dung per kg. I think it > must be about 15-18 MJ - depending on the ash content. > >> > >> I worry a great deal about "burning" dung. The whole point of making > char is to improve the soil and maybe especially in Nepal. But Char from > dung can be of extra value - as proven in numerous soil experiments. Is > you team into the soil side of char at all? I hope that the word "burn" > is a misnomer. > >> > >> You asked about the flame temperatures. This will be strongly > dependent on the excess air you are getting. Can you supply any data on > the weight of a fuel load that lasts 12 minutes? What is the volume of the > fuel space and the shape (and density) of that fuel. I would think your > own tests could supply temperature data - using thermocouples. > >> > >> I would look closely at the Georgia Tech computations of the last few > days on this list and see if they might not answer some of your questions. > >> > >> For others - the Servals unit is a nice looking commercial TLUD unit > from Chennai India, developed with Paul Anderson. See > >> http://servalsgroup.blogspot.com/ > >> and > >> http://www.slideshare.net/bitmaxim/servals-tlud-biomass-stove-deck > >> (and there are more) > >> > >> I have seen some technical data in these, but assume there must be a > good bit more. Paul? > >> > >> > >> Ron > >> > >> From: "Sarbagya Tuladhar" <[email protected]> > >> To: "Paul S. Anderson" <[email protected]> > >> Cc: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" < > [email protected]> > >> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 5:37:57 PM > >> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Cleaning Dung > >> > >> Hi Paul, > >> Dung burning using TLUD as a project had been conducted by the final > year students of uni of Adelaide of which I was lucky to be a part of. This > project was conducted under the EWB Australia humanitarian undergraduate > project. Excellent work was done on this. I would very much try to > incorporate their findings in my report. > >> > >> Cheers > >> > >> Sarbagya > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >> On 18/03/2012, at 7:00 AM, "Paul S. Anderson" <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > >>> Sarbagya, > >>> > >>> I want to encourage your research on modelling cookstoves in Nepal. > >>> > >>> Please be aware of the Improved Cookstoves called TLUDs and the newest > (and major) variation called TChar (TLUD top and Charcoal stove base). > (TChar is described in 3 documents at www.drtlud.com and is the > focal point of some stove initiatives in Uganda and Haiti.) Some studies > of TLUD stove issues in Nepal have been conducted, with favorable results, > but limited by lack of funding in the recent past. > >>> > >>> The TLUD stoves (including the TChar variation) can utilize dung > briquette fuels very well. In India I successfully experimented with "dung > tablets" that are easy to make in sizes such as rectangles that are 2 - 3 > cm on each side and about 1.5 to 2.5 cm thick. > >>> > >>> I hope that your modelling will include the TLUD approach to using > dung as fuel. > >>> > >>> Members of this Stoves Listserv would appreciate knowing more about > you, your university, and objectives and methods. > >>> > >>> Doc > >>> -- > >>> Paul S. Anderson, PhD > >>> Known to some as: Dr TLUD Doc Professor > >>> Phone (USA): 309-452-7072 SKYPE: paultlud Email: > [email protected] > >>> www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/giz2011-en-micro-gasification.pdf (excellent > ref.) > >>> My website specific for TLUD information: www.drtlud.com = > www.DrTLUD.com > >>> > >>> > >>> Quoting SARBAGYA TULADHAR <[email protected]>: > >>> > >>>> Hi Stovers, > >>>> > >>>> I am undertaking my uni graduate project on the Use of CFD for the > study of heat transfer and convection in a Dung Burning Cookstove. With > this project, a heat transfer and convection analysis would be carried out > using Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD) for the optimization of dung > burning cooktove that is currently being developed in Nepal. The analysis > would involve simulation to predict the performance of the cookstove and > would set up a benchmark for improved stove manufacturing in Nepal. This > analysis would also assist in providing the experimental and the simulation > results towards getting the stove certified as an ?Improved Cookstove?. > >>>> > >>>> However to simulate the dung burning I had to resort to using the > fixed heat source instead as modeling combustion/pyrolysis of dung was > beyond the scope of the project. So what could be the heat output from > burning 1 kg. of dung. How mush heat would be released from this ? Is that > the calorific value dung ? As I would be using a fixed temperature heat > source, what could be that temperature ? > >>>> > >>>> Cheers > >>>> > >>>> Sarbagya Tuladhar > >>>> > >>>> On 13/02/2012, at 2:27 AM, Anand Karve wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Dear Richard, > >>>>> The undigested solid matter in the dung is in fact the > lignocellulosic matter, However, in the case of ruminents, it is not in a > fibrous form but in the form of particles due to the practice of chewing > the cud. It is the dung of non-ruminents, like horses and elephants that > has fibres. > >>>>> Yours > >>>>> A.D.Karve > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 11:30 PM, Richard Stanley < > [email protected]> wrote: > >>>>> Ad, > >>>>> > >>>>> I don't personally think the solids would be of much value for a > good briquette: What I would look for personally, is your lignocellulosic > material, ( the more fibrous stuff) to encapsulate other more carbon rich > salt free, materials sawdust charcoal crumbs/ dust, selected agro residues > with aromatic-or non aromatic- considerations depending upon what kind of > fuel aroma and duration of heat you desire. > >>>>> > >>>>> Richard Stanley > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Feb 10, 2012, at 9:36 PM, Anand Karve wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Cattle dung consists mainly of non-digestible lignocellulosic > material, millions of micro-organisms, mucus produced by the animals and by > the microbes, and some minerals. In fact it is the microbes and the mucus > in the dung that yield biogas on anaerobic fermentation. A pressurised > sieve, technically called a filter press, is the best device for separating > the non-soluble solids from the fluids. If the fluids contained the > microbes and the mucus, they should be subjected to anaerobic digestion > before allowing them to be used as manure. Dung also has a very high ash > content, because of which its calorific value is rather low. Dry dung has > calorific value of about 3500 kcal/kg. Has anybody measured the calorific > value of the solids in the dung, after removal of the fluids from it by > using a filter press? > >>>>> Yours > >>>>> A.D.Karve > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 8:27 AM, Sarbagya Tuladhar < > [email protected]> wrote: > >>>>> Hi Boston > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> I volunteered with EWB Australia in Nepal working on a clean dung > burning stove and thus worked with the dung as a fuel . Washing of the dung > was done and briquettes which was a real success. Paper pulp used as a > binder worked really well. Also the chloride contents of the dung which is > responsible for watery eyes was removed on washing the dung which was > proven by the copper wire test. We even fabricated a simple dung press for > the same. The liquid portion of the dung was reutilised as manure in the > fields. Thus the whole sceptism about "should" use dung as manure in the > fields and not as a cooking fuel was somewhat solved. Did not test the NPK > contents of the liquid portion though... > >>>>> > >>>>> Sarbagya > >>>>> > >>>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>>> > >>>>> On 11/02/2012, at 2:06 AM, Boston Nyer <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Hello, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I'm looking to clean/rinse cow dung and do not have any experience > doing so. Does anyone have any experience cleaning dung and would like to > share? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thank you! > >>>>>> Boston > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Boston > >>>>>> Skype: BostonNyer > >>>>>> Cell: (585) 503-3459 > >>>>>> www.burndesignlab.org > >>> > >>> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> This message was sent using Illinois State University RedbirdMail > >>> > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Stoves mailing list > >> > >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > >> [email protected] > >> > >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > >> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > >> > >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > >> http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > >> > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using Illinois State University RedbirdMail > > > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > >
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