Don't know, just thought of that as a way to not use electric power.
On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Paul Olivier <[email protected]>wrote: > Josh, > > Could a hand-crank or foot treadle system be operated at a village level? > It might be too expensive for a household. > Do you know of companies that make them? > > Paul Olivier > > > On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 10:59 PM, Josh Kearns < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> What about a mechanical hand-crank or foot-treadle system with a >> flywheel? Get 'er goin and then every few min. a couple pumps on the crank >> to keep the flywheel up to the desired speed. >> >> Josh >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 9:42 AM, Phil Hughes <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Let me toss in a few more factoids. >>> http://www.batteryspace.com/li-ioncylindricalcellseries.aspx will give >>> you a decent sample of the common LiION cells. The most common size in >>> laptop batteries is the 18650 which is typically from 2.2 to 2.78Ah. When >>> you see a laptop with a higher capacity battery it is typically cells in >>> series-parallel. For example, a 6-cell battery is generally two strings of >>> three 18650 cells in parallel. >>> >>> The explosing fist is real. The good news is that there are very >>> inexpensive chips designed to charge these cells. You will find one (for a >>> single cell) in all cellular phones. They will deal with maximum voltage >>> and maximum charge current. They are also low drop-out as a typical use is >>> to output 4.2V from a USB (5V) supply. >>> >>> In a typical laptop, you find other chips (generally more than just a >>> single component) to charge the "almost 12V" string of LiIon cells from the >>> typical 16 to 20V AC adapter. The disadvantage here is that you need to >>> monitor the voltages of each cell in the string. Not complicated but that >>> is what makes the 12V solution potentially more expensive than the 3.7V one. >>> >>> A 5V fan is an interesting possibility. First, if may operate fast >>> enough from say 3.5V so a single LiIon cell would handle it. If not, a >>> flyback converter to step up 3.7 to 5V would be cheap and high efficiency >>> (because most of the power comes directly from the battery rather than >>> needing to be "converted"). >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 9:36 AM, Frans Peeters >>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> Phil, >>>> >>>> 3x LiION =3,7Vx3=11,1V Charger needs 4,2x3=12,6 maximum or EXPLOSION >>>> RISK >>>> 2W motor at 12V-------->0,1666 A >>>> 8h xO,166A =1,8Ah >>>> Laptop cells are 3,6 Ah and more >>>> Sun cell 15,6V---------> 12,6 V +3V for charging regulator LM317 >>>> >>>> PC uP fans exist at 5V x0,2A=1W you could power with 2 cells; >>>> Also a dual fan of 2x 1W >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> Frans >>>> >>>> I see Paul Oliver's work to be excellent and appreciate how a variable >>>> speed >>>> fan can offer excellent control over TLUD operation. My reservation is >>>> that >>>> there are many places where even the small power requirement (Paul says >>>> 1-2 >>>> watts) just isn't available. Lots of people here in Nicaragua are >>>> totally >>>> off-grid and don't have reasonable access to a way to charge a battery. >>>> So, >>>> I am been thinking about options. Being, among other things, an >>>> electronics >>>> geek, here is what I have been thinking about. >>>> >>>> >>>> Running the TLUD 8 hours a day at "average" fan speed means 12 watts per >>>> day. At 12 volts that's one ampere hour. I have been thinking about a >>>> couple >>>> of approaches. One is "higher tech" but may be a better solution at an >>>> equivalent or lower cost. In both cases I am just thinking of a >>>> photovoltaic >>>> panel to charge the battery. The difference is the battery voltage. >>>> >>>> Small PV panels are pretty common on the surplus market. For example, >>>> Electronic Gold Mine (http://www.goldmine-elec.com/) offers an >>>> assortment. >>>> The specifications vary from 7 to 35 volts open circuit with output >>>> power in >>>> the range of 1-3 watts. Prices are from $4.50 to $15. As this is >>>> quantity >>>> one retail price information, it is likely the could be found at >>>> significantly lower costs. >>>> >>>> >>>> As any PV-based system will need some sort of charge controller for the >>>> battery and what PV cells (in particular, what voltage) will be >>>> available at >>>> the best price point, I am thinking that using a single-cell Lithium Ion >>>> battery (3.7 volts nominal) would make the most sense. Units with a >>>> capacity >>>> of 2.2 ampere hours and more are commonly used in laptop computers. They >>>> offer reasonable life, low cost and the possibility of finding them on >>>> the >>>> surplus market. The cells can be paralleled if higher capacity is >>>> needed. >>>> >>>> A switching "up-converter" would be needed to supply the 12 volts >>>> needed for >>>> the fan. The speed control could be incorporated into the up converter >>>> which >>>> would reduce the cost and increase the efficiency. >>>> >>>> The alternative would be to use a more or less 12 volt battery (three >>>> Li-Ion >>>> cells in series) so that the up-converter could be eliminated. My >>>> initial >>>> guess is that the reduced electronics cost would not be as much as the >>>> increased battery cost but it is a viable alternative as long as higher >>>> voltage surplus PV panels are available. >>>> >>>> While this sounds like a lot of electronics, this is all very common >>>> stuff >>>> that you find in, for example, cellular phones. There is some design >>>> work >>>> needed but the actual component costs will be very low. >>>> >>>> Comments? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Phil Hughes >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Stoves mailing list >>>> >>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>>> >>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >>>> >>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >>>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/ >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Phil Hughes >>> [email protected] >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Stoves mailing list >>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>> [email protected] >>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >>> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/ >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Josh Kearns >> PhD Candidate >> Environmental Engineering >> Engineering for Developing Communities >> University of Colorado-Boulder >> >> Director of Science >> Aqueous Solutions >> www.aqsolutions.org >> >> Mobile: 720 989 3959 >> Skype: joshkearns >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Stoves mailing list >> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >> [email protected] >> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >> http://www.bioenergylists.org/ >> >> >> > > > -- > Paul A. Olivier PhD > 27C Pham Hong Thai Street > Dalat > Vietnam > > Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam) > Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam) > Skype address: Xpolivier > http://www.esrla.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > > -- Josh Kearns PhD Candidate Environmental Engineering Engineering for Developing Communities University of Colorado-Boulder Director of Science Aqueous Solutions www.aqsolutions.org Mobile: 720 989 3959 Skype: joshkearns
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