Price? T R Miles Technical Consultants Inc. [email protected] Sent from mobile.
On Sep 30, 2012, at 11:40 PM, "Energies Naturals C.B." <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hallo Christa, > > thanks for your interesting comments. > > The PM 3.0 was an early prototype, manufactured in + 300 units most of which > are still in use. > It gad a vertical axis design and only one motor which drives both the > rasping shaft and plate and the koller/die below. > > The problem was that it needed often "help" to draw in some kind of > voluminous feedstock. > > The new machines are very different and have solved many problems learnt from > the previous. > > Also, there are three versions, all of them more productive than the first. > > The principle and the high quality is still the same. > > Rolf > > > Am 01.10.2012 00:57, schrieb CHRISTA ROTH: >> >> Paul, you should have just asked me for info. The Pelletmaker 3.0 from >> Ecoworxx is the one that I have, it was the only one available from Ecoworxx >> in 2010. It is featured in the GIZ-HERA manual microgasification >> http://www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/giz2011-en-micro-gasification.pdf, see photos >> and link to their website on page 90. that unit is now doing work in >> Malawi, though not for fuel processing. but for waste management. In 2010 I >> paid less than 5,000 Euro for the machine, including a 6 mm and an extra >> 20-mm die (which is 60 mm thick!). I don't know current pricing. >> >> there is another unit in Senegal making Typha-grass-pellets. both machines >> were airfreighted to Africa, increasing the cost, but speeding up the >> process (220kg). The challenge to get it to Malawi was that the pallet where >> the machine is mounted for transport could not go upright as they only have >> small cargo planes flying into the country, so they had to make a special >> double pallet and lay the machine flat on the side for the transport. it >> still worked. and Ecoworxx handled it all. >> For a trial machine to prove a concept it is actually ideal to have the >> shredder and the pelletiser in one machine. it is probably not so >> appropriate to go on a commercial scale, there it makes sense to have the >> two steps separated, depending on your setting. Ecoworxx has since developed >> larger capacity products. >> >> but if you are not sure that you will actually succeed and have a market >> case for pellets in a certain area, that small machine, that was developed >> for the German home-owner for private use is the best you can get. Added >> advantage is that you only need 3 KvA, but tri-phase power. But it can do >> maximum 50 kg per hour, depending on the material. >> >> and because it is a flat-die machine, it is easy to exchange the dies to >> work with different diameters. I have 6, 14 and 20 mm dies, >> depending on material and what you want to use it for. >> the dies are good quality, but also wear out with time. The deterioration >> rate depends again on the material that you put through, but the dies last >> far longer than the chinese versions that you can get relatively cheaply on >> the market. >> >> Yet if you want to go to scale, there are ring-die machines for larger >> volumes made in Africa, see again the manual, next page with photo and >> reference to website. >> >> hope that answers most of the questions. >> Christa >> >> Am 30.09.2012 um 15:55 schrieb Paul Anderson <[email protected]>: >> >>> Rolf, >>> >>> Yes, we would like to know the prices. This Listserv is not for >>> commercial purposes, but you can certainly inform us of the prices here >>> because so many people want to know. And not all want the USA >>> prices. Basic price where manufactured. And I want to know >>> about getting units in eastern Africa (specifically >>> Uganda). >>> >>> Question: Wouldn't it make more sense to have the >>> chopping/shreading/grinding to be done separately from the machine that >>> does the pelletizing? That would allow the user to make appropriate >>> mixtures for the pellets. >>> >>> So I ask: Can you make and sell the pelletizer unit separately? Prices >>> please. >>> >>> I like the ability to have different diameters of pellets!!! >>> >>> Finally, where can we see independent reviewer comments about your >>> machines? And comparative info with other pelletizers? >>> >>> As we (generic we because there are several efforts) advance with TLUD >>> stoves in eastern Africa, there could be considerable market for >>> appropriately priced and reliable pelletizing equipment. Small units are >>> fine. Labor costs are so low, so it is vastly different from the USA and >>> Europe situations. Do you have any representation in Africa? >>> >>> Paul >>> Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD" >>> Email: [email protected] Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072 >>> Website: www.drtlud.com >>> On 9/30/2012 4:35 AM, Energies Naturals C.B. wrote: >>>> Hallo Paul, Ron and others, >>>> >>>> uniformizing low density fuels and uneven size fuels has always been a >>>> problem. >>>> I found a good solution in the Ecoworxx all-in one pelletizer. >>>> This is a unique device which has a big hopper on top and a rasping drum >>>> underneath it. >>>> It will reduce virtually any feedstock less than 12 cm diam to particles >>>> between 1 and 6 mm. >>>> These fall into a mixing chamber below where the moisture content is >>>> measured and -if too dry- water is added by an >>>> automatic pump. >>>> A second moisture sensor at the entrance to the dosifying screw regulates >>>> the addition of water. >>>> The ground biomass is fed into the flat die press underneath and leaves it >>>> as prime grade pellets. >>>> You can change the die in 10 minutes and have the choice to produce 6 -8 >>>> -12- 16 -20 -and 25 mm pellets on the same machine! >>>> It doesn´t come from China, though because despite the price advantage, >>>> all the units I saw never met the quality standard for trouble free use. >>>> And you cannot move away from them because they have to be fed >>>> continuously. >>>> Our machine is entirely designed and manufactured in Germany, meets the CE >>>> requirements and really works! >>>> >>>> If you are interested, come to the Expobioenergia fair in Valladolid/Spain >>>> on 23-25.Oct. this year where we shall expose two working units. >>>> >>>> We just pelletized whole canes of Arundo Donax in one go into wonderfull >>>> hard 6 mm fuel pellets! >>>> >>>> Many more samples have been tested successfully. We would be happy to test >>>> yours! >>>> >>>> No time to visit the fair? >>>> Check www.ecoworxx.de and if you call or write in my name they will know >>>> your problem ! >>>> >>>> Rolf Uhle >>>> >>>> Energies Naturals C.B. >>>> >>>> (sober again, Ron?) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Am 30.09.2012 05:39, schrieb Paul Olivier: >>>>> >>>>> Ron, >>>>> >>>>> You bring up a very good point here. If the biomass is uniform, granular >>>>> and dry, it becomes very easy to process in a TLUD. That is why it is so >>>>> appealing to work with biomass that is already >>>>> uniform, granular and dry, such as rice hulls and coffee husks. >>>>> >>>>> But if we have biomass that is not uniform, granular and dry (such as >>>>> straw, pine needles or sawdust), then we might think about drying and >>>>> pelletizing it. In this way we have a top-quality gasifier fuel. This >>>>> allows us to take full advantage of both the biochar and gas. In the case >>>>> of rice hulls and coffee husks, the gas has a much greater commercial >>>>> value than the biochar. In making biochar it is such a pity to waste the >>>>> gas. >>>>> >>>>> Also when we pelletize biomass, the bulk density can reach as high as 600 >>>>> kgs/m3. This means that if we use a gasifier for purposes of household >>>>> cooking, the height of the reactor has to be only a fraction of the >>>>> height of a reactor utilizing undensified biomass such as rice hulls (of >>>>> a bulk density of less than 100 kgs/m3). If we do not change the height >>>>> of the reactor, then cooking times per batch can last three or four >>>>> hours. When we have thousands of households and small business using >>>>> gasifiers, then we do not have to think about making biochar as an >>>>> independent activity. >>>>> >>>>> I really like small pellets of a diameter of about 6 mm. Of course there >>>>> is the cost of buying a pellet machine. But they are quite cheap out of >>>>> China. And there is the cost of electricity or fuel to make the pellets. >>>>> But this cost is easily offset by the value of the syngas produced. Even >>>>> in a poor country such as Vietnam, it is easy to buy pellets in local >>>>> markets. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. >>>>> Paul >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 9:48 AM, Ronald Hongsermeier <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> Dear Alex, >>>>> >>>>> I haven't carefully read the whole thread but haven't seen granularity of >>>>> fuel addressed. Isn't that what makes a lot of difference in the >>>>> flame/gas quality ( along with the moisture content, of course ) and >>>>> determines the necessity of either using or not using forced air? >>>>> Regarding Dr. Karve's drums I'm wondering how careful everyone is in >>>>> emphasizing fuel moisture and >>>>> particularity/uniformity issues in using these tools. >>>>> >>>>> I think my first sentence above applies to both DD (Imberts or others) >>>>> and TLUD's. >>>>> >>>>> regards, >>>>> Ronald von der Oktoberfestnähe >>>>> >>>>> (mein heutiger Name wird nur dann getragen bei einer >>>>> Bierleichensichtungsrate von > 1 / Tag ;-) >>>>> ) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 29.09.2012 20:55, Alex English wrote: >>>>>> Tom, >>>>>> I guess it may depend on what you consider a clean burn. My experiments >>>>>> focused the gases through a smaller out let pipe and then added the >>>>>> secondary air. So for a two foot diameter drum the pipe was three >>>>>> inches in diameter. Air was introduced near the top having only half >>>>>> that distance to penetrate, and >>>>>> combustion occurred in a six inch diameter chimney , six feet tall above. >>>>>> >>>>>> Combustion was measurably good to very good nineteen times out of twenty. >>>>>> >>>>>> So, what indeed is the limit? >>>>>> Alex >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2012-09-29 11:47 AM, "Tom Miles" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> AD, Paul, Kobus and others. Many thanks for the suggestions. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> What is the largest practical size (kg fuel/hr, kW) for a single TLUD >>>>>> with a clean stack for heat recovery? There must be a limit to the air >>>>>> penetration to get a clean gas >>>>>> burn form a natural draft >>>>>> stack or even a fan driven TLUD. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Anand Karve >>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 11:22 PM >>>>>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Fabricated Burn Barrel TLUDS >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear Tom, >>>>>> >>>>>> we regularly supply charring >>>>>> kilns made out of used 55 gallon drums. The kilns are based on the TLUD >>>>>> principle. The cost of a kiln plus an extra barrel for storing the char, >>>>>> is about US$100. We have sold more than 100 such kilns in India and have >>>>>> also trained a number of persons from India and Africa. These kilns are >>>>>> so easy to manufacture, that we ask the trainees to photograph and take >>>>>> measurements of our kiln so that they can copy the design. In many >>>>>> instances, people buy a kiln from us, because they feel that their local >>>>>> fabricator would be better able to copy the design from an actual object >>>>>> than from a blue print or a photograph. >>>>>> >>>>>> The advantage of using 55 gallon drums is that used drums are available >>>>>> at a relatively low cost, and the kilns are portable. Instead of >>>>>> transporting the biomass, one >>>>>> transports the kiln to the >>>>>> location where the biomass is available, and brings back >>>>>> only the charred material, which weighs only a >>>>>> third as much as the biomass. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yours >>>>>> >>>>>> A.D.Karve >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:42 PM, Tom Miles <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Am often asked if there is a burn barrel sized TLUD that is commercially >>>>>> fabricated. We’ve seen some great DIY with Doug’s Jolly Roger and >>>>>> others. Is anyone fabricating a 55 gal drum sized TLUD that can be used >>>>>> for regular biochar production? If so, what is the cost and availability? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom Miles >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Stoves mailing list >>>>>> >>>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>>>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >>>>>> >>>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >>>>>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> *** >>>>>> Dr. A.D. Karve >>>>>> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute >>>>>> (ARTI) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Stoves mailing list >>>>>> >>>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>>>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >>>>>> >>>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >>>>>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Stoves mailing list >>>>>> >>>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>>>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >>>>>> >>>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >>>>>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> No virus found in this message. >>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>>> Version: 10.0.1427 / Virus Database: 2441/5298 - Release Date: 09/29/12 >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Stoves mailing list >>>>> >>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >>>>> >>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >>>>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Paul A. Olivier PhD >>>>> 27C Pham Hong Thai Street >>>>> Dalat >>>>> Vietnam >>>>> >>>>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam) >>>>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam) >>>>> Skype address: Xpolivier >>>>> http://www.esrla.com/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Stoves mailing list >>>>> >>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >>>>> >>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >>>>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/ >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Stoves mailing list >>>> >>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >>>> >>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >>>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/ >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Stoves mailing list >>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>> [email protected] >>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >>> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Stoves mailing list >> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >> [email protected] >> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >> http://www.bioenergylists.org/ >> > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ >
_______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://www.bioenergylists.org/
