Dear Richard, I need training too! In my limited experience, it's hard to make a really clean pellet and harder to make a really clean burning briquette. Now that stoves are supposed to be Tier 3 or better for emissions of CO and PM I find it a challenge to make really clean recipes. Let's get together at the lab and write down some good recipes?
Best, Dean On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 6:46 PM, Legacyfound <[email protected]>wrote: > Dear Ottos, > Seems you both need training in briquettemaking . Jon you know where to go > in nchi yeti but Otto, where are you based? Seriously, the blends you are > finding smelly smokey etc suggests that you get in touch with any of > hundreds of others who can train you. > Richard Stanley > Monte Rico, > Guatemala > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 19, 2013, at 18:10, Otto Formo <[email protected]> wrote: > > Josh and Jonathan (Otto), > > Yes, we are talking about the presscake of Jatropha and it was processed > into pellets localy in Zambia, quite easily and with "simple" tools - (no > waste of energy) > > We had the same experience as your colleagues using briquettes made out of > ricehusks and sawdust. > They even started to glow like charcoal early in the gasification process > and produced smoky and smouldery combustion. > > Thast why we prefer to use pellets of best possible quality. > > I hope you are correct about the gasification of jatropha pellets will > destroy the phorbol esters and other problematic compounds instead of > emitting them. > Iam a bit worried about the forced draft units, while they seems to blow > some parts of the ash and gases into the open air or room. > > May be the char from Jatropha could have a pestecide effect as well? > > Otto > ------------------------------ > Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 18:23:35 -0500 > From: <[email protected]>[email protected] > To: <[email protected]>[email protected] > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha fruit as fuel? > > Otto - FYI jatropha presscake (the mealy material left over once oil has > been pressed out of the seeds) can be directly pelletized without further > processing. It's pretty easy to pelletize, even with a small, cheaper (e.g. > benchtop) pellet press. The mealy presscake still contains some of the oil > (think coffee grounds) and it pelletizes well without worry over moisture > content or having to use a binder. > > The pellets burn in a TLUD similar to wood or other pellets, at least by > visual observation and temperature recording. I have colleagues that have > tried to make cooking briquettes with jatropha seedcake and had a very > smoky, smouldery combustion. I believe there are concerns of some > potentially toxic emissions (phorbol esters, other compounds?). I have not > tested the emissions from TLUD charring jatropha pellets, but there was no > visible smoke and the gasifier seemed to operate fine as it does with other > types of pellets. It would be interesting to know if firing jatropha > pellets in a TLUD destroys the phorbol esters and other problematic > compounds instead of emitting them. > > I first tried to char un-pelletized jatropha seedcake in the TLUD - > because it is mealy like coffee grounds no draft could get through and it > was a total fail - lots of smoke poured out! This brought the fire > department to our Colorado backyard during a fire ban. Whoops. > > Also FYI char made from TLUD jatropha pellets performed similar for > herbicide uptake from simulated natural water as chars made in the same way > from pine pellets, bagasse pellets, and bamboo pieces. > > Josh > > > > On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 12:29 PM, Jonathan Otto <<[email protected]> > [email protected]> wrote: > > Otto, > > > > Whole Jatropha seeds can be picked from hedges on-farm and used directly > in our jiko safi gasification stove without any further effort (except > maybe for some sun drying if harvested during a damp season) … the most > decentralized, efficient sustainable fuel system I can imagine. > > > > Sure, urban jiko safi users will need to buy their fuel seeds, so a > commercial system for transport and retail sale of seed will be needed > eventually, likely mimicking some aspects of the charcoal trade. But it’s > just whole, unprocessed seed. > > > > Concerning pelletized Jatropha fuel, I would like to understand the > advantages you find in going through the costs and effort (including energy > losses) of processing seeds to expel the oil, then probably milling the > press cake and shells (?) to uniform size/texture, then extruding or > otherwise forming the mixture into pellets, and finally distribute the > fuel, some of which will go back to the same farmers that grew the Jatropha > seed in the first place? > > > > I know there are technical advantages to gasification of uniform-sized > pellets, but it seems to me that round or ovoid shaped seeds like Jatropha, > castor (I know, more poisons!), shea or croton megalocarpus provide this > same advantage, without going through the pelletization process. What am > I missing?****** > > > > Otto, the minor > > > > P.S. It's too late for me to retire 'on time' > ------------------------------ > From: <[email protected]>[email protected] > To: <[email protected]>[email protected] > Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 17:23:37 +0100 > > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha fruit as fuel? > > Jonathan, > > We have got some samples of pelletized jatropha shells and seeds from > Zambia, after the oil has been extracted and we feel that is the way > forward. > > We will update you on the progress, so you will be albe to retire "on > time".................:) > We are not so worried about PM in natural draft gasifiers, but thanks for > the concern. > > Otto........................ > ------------------------------ > From: <[email protected]>[email protected] > To: <[email protected]>[email protected] > Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 09:03:35 -0500 > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha fruit as fuel? > > Otto- > > You 'would guess' wrong. > > 'We should be very careful advising people' about such unsupported > conclusions. > > The challenges of gasifying oils found in seeds, notably the oils of > Jatropha seed, in a cookstove are far different from working with > most pellets formulations. > > I keenly look forward to news of your all-fuel stoves that will handle J > seeds, and the results of your tests. I sincerely hope you develop this > soon, so I can finally retire in peace. > > Oh, and when you do tests, please include particulates in your emissions > testing, so we can finally end all this hand wringing about 'these types of > fuel'. > > >From the cheeky other Otto, > > Jonathan > ------------------------------ > From: <[email protected]>[email protected] > To: <[email protected]>[email protected] > Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 23:23:48 +0100 > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha fruit as fuel? > > Dear stovers, > > I would guess that "any" gasifier will burn jatropha seeds or pellets > cleanly and efficient, as long as the moisture content are less than 10%. > > We have in the pipeline to test a new design of natural draft gasifiers, > using jatropha seeds and pellets, for emmissions and toxcic fumes. > > We should be very carefull adviceing people using these types of fuel, > before it has been carefully tested by independent institutions. > > Have a nice weekend. > > Otto (not the famous one..........:) > > ------------------------------ > From: <[email protected]>[email protected] > To: <[email protected]>[email protected] > Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 10:19:11 -0500 > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha fruit as fuel? > > Dear Jonathan > > I am interested in the general layout and dimensions of a stove that will > burn the seeds well. Are you sharing at this time anything regarding the > design? > > Thanks > Crispin > ++++++++ > > Dear Joyce and stovers all, > > My regrets for not responding to this request 6 months ago. I admit that > it got lost in my messy inbox which I have now reduced from 6000 messages > to a mere 2400, and in the process uncovered Joyce's email. > > Burning Jatropha seeds whole or in briquettes in open cooking arrangements > is a bad idea. It produces a smoky, smelly fire and probably exposes cooks > to toxic emissions. I even question burning Jatropha oil in lamps in > enclosed areas for the same reason. Maybe others know of emissions studies. > [snip] > > _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to > Send a Message to the list, use the email address > <[email protected]>[email protected] to > UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.orgfor > more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > <http://www.bioenergylists.org/>http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to > Send a Message to the list, use the email address > <[email protected]>[email protected] to > UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.orgfor > more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > <http://www.bioenergylists.org/>http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to > Send a Message to the list, use the email address > <[email protected]>[email protected] to > UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.orgfor > more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > <http://www.bioenergylists.org/>http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to > Send a Message to the list, use the email address > <[email protected]>[email protected] to > UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.orgfor > more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > <http://www.bioenergylists.org/>http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > <[email protected]>[email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > <http://www.bioenergylists.org/>http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > > > > > -- > Josh Kearns > PhD Candidate, Environmental Engineering > University of Colorado-Boulder > Visiting Researcher, North Carolina State University > > Director of Science > Aqueous Solutions > <http://www.aqsolutions.org>www.aqsolutions.org > > Mobile: 720 989 3959 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 720 989 > 3959 end_of_the_skype_highlighting > Skype: joshkearns > > > > > _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to > Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List > Settings use the web page > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.orgfor > more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > <http://www.bioenergylists.org/>http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > >
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