See a German all in one pelletizer which virtually grinds and shapes anything into pellets between 6 and 20 mm in one go. www.peletizadora.es
Rolf On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 10:46:45 -0600 Legacyfound <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Otto , > The German machinery is very likely using the rolling or ball mill > off concentric perforated cylinder design none of which will work with the > wet process technology(pressures far higher than needed by just under one an > order of magnitude in fact---and temperatures far too high for water based > fiber migration into the necessary random alignment which allows binding of > the mass ( there machines turn the water into steam with some not so funny > results and they destroy any fiber strength in the process). > Still some sawdust burs well other smokes and smolders. Simple test is to > combust each element separately . We're finding differences in sawdust here > too: major differences! > Will see this all studied here, soon enough, and will revert back to list. > > As to stoves in use, there is the Helps ONIL stove , the stove team products > as reported by Gustavo Pena, the traditional plancha mud brick wrapped around > a usually thin clay or metal dish ~ 14 to ~24" diameter, three stones and > probably many more I have yet to learn about. > Stove adaptation for bed or vice versa, does not seem to pose much of a > problem to those 175 odd producers who are making using and selling the > product here--not thus far at least. > That minus 35C was a typo correct? > > Richard, a bit warmer, in > MonteRico,Guatemala > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 20, 2013, at 5:41, Otto Formo <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Dear Richard, > > > > Thanks for your concern. > > The briquettes, I mentioned, was made out of a mixture of richusks and > > sawdust from hardwood. > > > > We found them at a sawmill in Western Province of Zambia and was produced > > by the owner of the mill, using a mobile briquetting unit made in Germany. > > The quality of the pelletsmachine can not be questioned, but most likely > > the mixture of husks and sawdust. (70-30%)? > > We just tested a finished product and found them too loose and came to sort > > a of "conclusion", that the mixture should be different, 30% husks and 70% > > sawdust to perform better. > > > > We are just about to test solid briquettes produced in Sweden, made out of > > sawdust from pine (softwood), right now. > > > > We very much like to be able to use briquettes, as well as pellets in the > > gasification units, too, due to the lower costs of production and less > > technical challanges. > > > > What type of stoves are you using in Guatemala? > > > > Otto > > Back in Norway to -35 C > > > > From: [email protected] > > Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 20:46:53 -0600 > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha fruit as fuel? > > > > Dear Ottos, > > Seems you both need training in briquettemaking . Jon you know where to go > > in nchi yeti but Otto, where are you based? Seriously, the blends you are > > finding smelly smokey etc suggests that you get in touch with any of > > hundreds of others who can train you. > > Richard Stanley > > Monte Rico, > > Guatemala > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Jan 19, 2013, at 18:10, Otto Formo <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Josh and Jonathan (Otto), > > > > Yes, we are talking about the presscake of Jatropha and it was processed > > into pellets localy in Zambia, quite easily and with "simple" tools - (no > > waste of energy) > > > > We had the same experience as your colleagues using briquettes made out of > > ricehusks and sawdust. > > They even started to glow like charcoal early in the gasification process > > and produced smoky and smouldery combustion. > > > > Thast why we prefer to use pellets of best possible quality. > > > > I hope you are correct about the gasification of jatropha pellets will > > destroy the phorbol esters and other problematic compounds instead of > > emitting them. > > Iam a bit worried about the forced draft units, while they seems to blow > > some parts of the ash and gases into the open air or room. > > > > May be the char from Jatropha could have a pestecide effect as well? > > > > Otto > > Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 18:23:35 -0500 > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha fruit as fuel? > > > > Otto - FYI jatropha presscake (the mealy material left over once oil has > > been pressed out of the seeds) can be directly pelletized without further > > processing. It's pretty easy to pelletize, even with a small, cheaper (e.g. > > benchtop) pellet press. The mealy presscake still contains some of the oil > > (think coffee grounds) and it pelletizes well without worry over moisture > > content or having to use a binder. > > > > The pellets burn in a TLUD similar to wood or other pellets, at least by > > visual observation and temperature recording. I have colleagues that have > > tried to make cooking briquettes with jatropha seedcake and had a very > > smoky, smouldery combustion. I believe there are concerns of some > > potentially toxic emissions (phorbol esters, other compounds?). I have not > > tested the emissions from TLUD charring jatropha pellets, but there was no > > visible smoke and the gasifier seemed to operate fine as it does with other > > types of pellets. It would be interesting to know if firing jatropha > > pellets in a TLUD destroys the phorbol esters and other problematic > > compounds instead of emitting them. > > > > I first tried to char un-pelletized jatropha seedcake in the TLUD - because > > it is mealy like coffee grounds no draft could get through and it was a > > total fail - lots of smoke poured out! This brought the fire department to > > our Colorado backyard during a fire ban. Whoops. > > > > Also FYI char made from TLUD jatropha pellets performed similar for > > herbicide uptake from simulated natural water as chars made in the same way > > from pine pellets, bagasse pellets, and bamboo pieces. > > > > Josh > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 12:29 PM, Jonathan Otto <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > Otto, > > > > > > > > Whole Jatropha seeds can be picked from hedges on-farm and used directly in > > our jiko safi gasification stove without any further effort (except maybe > > for some sun drying if harvested during a damp season) … the most > > decentralized, efficient sustainable fuel system I can imagine. > > > > > > > > Sure, urban jiko safi users will need to buy their fuel seeds, so a > > commercial system for transport and retail sale of seed will be needed > > eventually, likely mimicking some aspects of the charcoal trade. But it’s > > just whole, unprocessed seed. > > > > > > > > Concerning pelletized Jatropha fuel, I would like to understand the > > advantages you find in going through the costs and effort (including energy > > losses) of processing seeds to expel the oil, then probably milling the > > press cake and shells (?) to uniform size/texture, then extruding or > > otherwise forming the mixture into pellets, and finally distribute the > > fuel, some of which will go back to the same farmers that grew the Jatropha > > seed in the first place? > > > > > > > > I know there are technical advantages to gasification of uniform-sized > > pellets, but it seems to me that round or ovoid shaped seeds like Jatropha, > > castor (I know, more poisons!), shea or croton megalocarpus provide this > > same advantage, without going through the pelletization process. What am I > > missing? > > > > > > > > Otto, the minor > > > > > > > > P.S. It's too late for me to retire 'on time' > > > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 17:23:37 +0100 > > > > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha fruit as fuel? > > > > Jonathan, > > > > We have got some samples of pelletized jatropha shells and seeds from > > Zambia, after the oil has been extracted and we feel that is the way > > forward. > > > > We will update you on the progress, so you will be albe to retire "on > > time".................:) > > We are not so worried about PM in natural draft gasifiers, but thanks for > > the concern. > > > > Otto........................ > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 09:03:35 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha fruit as fuel? > > > > Otto- > > > > You 'would guess' wrong. > > > > 'We should be very careful advising people' about such unsupported > > conclusions. > > > > The challenges of gasifying oils found in seeds, notably the oils of > > Jatropha seed, in a cookstove are far different from working with most > > pellets formulations. > > > > I keenly look forward to news of your all-fuel stoves that will handle J > > seeds, and the results of your tests. I sincerely hope you develop this > > soon, so I can finally retire in peace. > > > > Oh, and when you do tests, please include particulates in your emissions > > testing, so we can finally end all this hand wringing about 'these types of > > fuel'. > > > > >From the cheeky other Otto, > > > > Jonathan > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 23:23:48 +0100 > > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha fruit as fuel? > > > > Dear stovers, > > > > I would guess that "any" gasifier will burn jatropha seeds or pellets > > cleanly and efficient, as long as the moisture content are less than 10%. > > > > We have in the pipeline to test a new design of natural draft gasifiers, > > using jatropha seeds and pellets, for emmissions and toxcic fumes. > > > > We should be very carefull adviceing people using these types of fuel, > > before it has been carefully tested by independent institutions. > > > > Have a nice weekend. > > > > Otto (not the famous one..........:) > > > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 10:19:11 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha fruit as fuel? > > > > Dear Jonathan > > > > I am interested in the general layout and dimensions of a stove that will > > burn the seeds well. Are you sharing at this time anything regarding the > > design? > > > > Thanks > > Crispin > > ++++++++ > > > > Dear Joyce and stovers all, > > > > My regrets for not responding to this request 6 months ago. I admit that > > it got lost in my messy inbox which I have now reduced from 6000 messages > > to a mere 2400, and in the process uncovered Joyce's email. > > > > Burning Jatropha seeds whole or in briquettes in open cooking arrangements > > is a bad idea. It produces a smoky, smelly fire and probably exposes cooks > > to toxic emissions. I even question burning Jatropha oil in lamps in > > enclosed areas for the same reason. Maybe others know of emissions studies. > > [snip] > > > > _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send > > a Message to the list, use the email address > > [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings > > use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send > > a Message to the list, use the email address > > [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings > > use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send > > a Message to the list, use the email address > > [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings > > use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send > > a Message to the list, use the email address > > [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings > > use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Stoves mailing list > > > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > > [email protected] > > > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Josh Kearns > > PhD Candidate, Environmental Engineering > > University of Colorado-Boulder > > Visiting Researcher, North Carolina State University > > > > Director of Science > > Aqueous Solutions > > www.aqsolutions.org > > > > Mobile: 720 989 3959 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 720 989 > > 3959 end_of_the_skype_highlighting begin_of_the_skype_highlighting > > 720 989 3959 end_of_the_skype_highlighting > > Skype: joshkearns > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to > > Send a Message to the list, use the email address > > [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings > > use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Stoves mailing list > > > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > > [email protected] > > > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send > > a Message to the list, use the email address > > [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings > > use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Stoves mailing list > > > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > > [email protected] > > > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > > http://www.bioenergylists.org/ > > _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://www.bioenergylists.org/
