Dear Ron
I would suggest that your approach, as presented below, is some combination of
an Ad Hominum Attack, and an un-scientific witch hunt. The Bioenergy lists
should be a source of Truth and Fact, based on Science, but you persist in
tainting Stove and Agricultural issues involving char with AGW, Carbon Credit,
Climate Change, and "Denier" considerations.
You could become a "Friend of Biochar" if you worked toward understanding how
biochar can be used to advantage by Farmers and Growers, in that if Farmers and
Growers find out how to use biochar economically, it will be used on a
widespread basis in Agriculture. Your AGW interests will then be advanced by
"Market Pull".
If you disagree with the views of List Members, please do so by refuting their
views with palpable evidence showing why you feel they are wrong, and not with
ad hominum attacks.
Thank you.
Kevin Chisholm
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves ; Paul Olivier
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Last? Alternative to Charcoal
Paul and list:
Thanks for a very complete response. This is to hope Crispin will respond
fully.
If so, I ask him three more to add to yours
a. why he has chosen to NOT join the sister biochar lists, given the
heavy emphasis there as well in char-making stoves.
b. whether much of his knowledge on biochar has come from WUWT. If not
what source (i am asking for a few specifics -not generalities) has he for his
statement below
There have been many claims made for biochar which, based on what I read
and hear from people who read much more broadly, that don’t stand up to close
scrutiny.
c. Does he see the connection I do between his being a "climate denier"
and being a skeptic on biochar?
Ron
On Apr 21, 2013, at 5:25 PM, Paul Olivier <[email protected]> wrote:
See comments below.
On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 1:13 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
<[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Jeff
Thanks for that contribution.
The point of Paul’s description is that in the circumstances where he is,
it works. It works on several levels and it will probably continue to work for
a long time.
The scenario was discussed on this list several times before, going back
years, but there was nowhere that all the ingredients were present. One of the
things that makes the rice hull char attractive is the existence, on a big
scale apparently, of land that benefits from the addition of the char, and
growing of crops that benefit from it.
There have been many claims made for biochar which, based on what I read
and hear from people who read much more broadly, that don’t stand up to close
scrutiny.
Crispin, I take issue with this statement. The biochar research that I have
been involved with (that is, biochar from my gasifiers) has been done in three
different countries, and it involved seven universities. More than 20
experiments have been carried out, and in none of these experiments did biochar
have negative effects. Contrary to what you might believe, this research does
stand up to close scrutiny. These people are not just reading about biochar,
but they are actually doing biochar research. I know many of these researchers,
and they are not engaged in deceit. They are trying to help poor farmers
understand the benefits of biochar.
The same holds for permaculture
What's wrong with permaculture?
and improved stove and lots of things, so there is nothing ‘special’
about char, it is just that people get enthusiastic about something and wish it
were universally true.
Crispin, it is hard for me to believe that you actually wrote this!
How do you know that that there is nothing special about biochar?
Is this your field of expertise?
Have you actually been involved in biochar research?
I strongly suggest that you read the following:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22013094/Biochar/Agronomy_Carter%20et%20al%202013%2002%2017.pdf
http://www.lrrd.org/public-lrrd/proofs/lrrd2501/chha25008.htm
http://www.lrrd.org/lrrd23/2/siso23032.htm
http://www.lrrd.org/lrrd24/2/siso24026.htm
http://www.lrrd.org/lrrd24/2/siso24039.htm
http://www.lrrd.org/lrrd24/2/siso24034.htm
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22013094/Biochar/Biochar%20utilization%20in%20Rice%20crop%20on%20Tuk%20Vil%20Luvisol.pdf
http://www.lrrd.org/lrrd24/11/leng24199.htm
If you really want to understand the benefits of biochar, please read this
book:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22013094/Biochar/Johannes%20Lehmann%2C%20Stephen%20Joseph-Biochar%20for%20environmental%20management_%20science%20and%20technology.pdf
The people who wrote and edited this book are not charlatans. They are not
deceitful. They are as good in their science as anyone could possibly be.
Crispin, the moment you start doing biochar research of your own, then you
might have something serious to say in this regard.
No problem, we can live with filters on information to sift out what is
beneficial and in what circumstances the claims how true. Independent
investigation will support it if it is.
Then do the independent investigation yourself.
As I understand if, the Japanese have being doing this the longest and
they are very circumscribed about what claims are made for biochar.
Some of the best biochar research was done by the Japanese (Ogawa et al)
back in the early 90's. They showed how biochar positively impacts the growth
of AM fungi. This is explained in the book by Lehmann and Joseph.
It is particular soils, particular crops and particular treatment of the
char (temperature, species) that are in combination, what gives improved
results. This theme constantly appears in the literature. As has been pointed
out, just randomly putting char into soil can have negative consequences – it
depends on the soil conditions. The last thing we need is a case of the char
causing more harm than good while claims are made that it is improving things.
The stove community should be working with agricultural trials experts.
I read in the past that adding rice hull ash to rice fields is beneficial
– maybe because the silica is extra-available, don’t know. Not my field.
If this is not your field, then on what authority do you base your
statements about rice hull biochar or rice hull ash?
Again, I challenge you: do the research, as Preston, Leng and Shackley have
done.
What upsets me here is that I know well some of the people who have been
conducting research with rice hull biochar.
They know agriculture quite well, they have impeccable scientific
credentials, and they, unlike you, are experts in this field.
Then you come along, without any basis in fact, and question their research
as not being scientific.
Wow!
I am just glad we have a working example of using gas and char that makes
economic sense.
It only makes economic sense, Crispin, if biochar plays a positive role in
promoting plant and animal growth. If biochar does not play a positive role, we
might as well burn it.
Thanks.
Paul Olivier
Regards
Crispin
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--
Paul A. Olivier PhD
26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
Dalat
Vietnam
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Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
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