See comments below.
On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 8:05 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Paul (cc Alex) > > This is to respond to your question: > > * Do you have any other other alternative to the use of fossil > fuels? > > * > Here are three alternatives, from my perspective: > a. Continued growth of the electrical system. Electricity is a great > way to cook. As we decide to get off fossil-fueled electricity, biomass > will be used for backup to wind and solar. As we realize the need to get > back to 350 ppm CO2, then the best biomass option is with biochar - Backup > with CHP in 10 -20 MW scale, not the GW scale assumed for BECCS. > I agree fully. If electricity is produced without making use of fossil fuels or nuclear energy, then this makes sense. > b. Natural gas for cooking will be replaced slowly by pyrolysis gas > (and electricity). City gas (from biomass) came before natural gas. > Yes, this is the option that I am focusing on: syngas replacing fossil fuel gas. This is a simple and inexpensive option that we can control and execute, > c. Liquid fuels can also come from pyrolysis with char co-product > when we decide we need to get to 350 ppm. Cooking can be that way as well. > Yes, we can produce methanol and ethanol from syngas, and these liquid fuels can be used for cooking. I am working with a large company that sells steel mills. We want to chip invasive plants, dry them thermophilically down to 23% moisture under a compost fleece, dry them further in large silo's, and pyrolyze/gasify them in the same silos to make syngas, make methanol from the syngas, and sell biochar as a soil amendment. Imagine the huge amount of mesquite, Chinese Tallow and Juniper available just in the state of Texas. > > Half the world can still rely on TLUD designs for cooking. Not for > most on this list, including Alex and I, because we can afford to keep what > we now use. > Keep what you are using, but use much less of these conventional devices. I think that there is definitely a place for small TLUDs running on pellets in modern kitchens. I have heard this argument many times: *I can afford fossil fuels so what's the big deal*? Our affluence should not provide us an excuse to burn fossil fuels. > But for half the world, a TLUD could be the cheapest - and so you need to > keep developing your type. That's a big market. One caution - solar > cooking for some meals will creep in - because it will be the cheapest. > Yes, but solar cookers are not reliable each and every day. Thanks. Paul Olivier > > Note that all four approaches involve char-making - since I assume an > eventual recognition both that all fossil fuels must go and also that we > need 350 or lower. > > No doubt Alex agrees with all this. Your reaction? > > Ron > > ------------------------------ > *From: *"Paul Olivier" <[email protected]> > > *To: *"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" < > [email protected]> > *Sent: *Wednesday, June 12, 2013 5:28:57 PM > *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] wheat husk pellets > > > Alex, > > You say: *Visions of pyrolysis stoves in the kitchens of North America > are borderline male fantasy. *Be realistic. Do you have any other other > alternative to the use of fossil fuels? Such a double standard: we use > fossil fuels to cook our meals and we expect poor people to use biomass > fuels. > Yes, you can start with the patio and then later move indoors as you > acquire more skill in operating the unit. Also, at this early stage in the > evolution of the technology, I would not recommend doing away with your gas > stove. Leave it there, but try to use your biomass stove as much as > possible. > Pellets are available at so many retail outlets in the USA, and they are > so easy to handle. I think that there are many households along the West > coast who would be happy to break away from the stranglehold of Big Oil. > > In my kitchen I have not yet set up a hood and fan. So I will operate the > pellet gasifier in my living room on a small coffee table. All that I have > to do is to open up the two big windows in the living room. The problem > that I have had all along was dealing with loose rice hulls. I have no > place to store a large sack of rice hulls in my house, and I dislike having > to load them into the reactor: they are so dusty and dirty. With pellets > this problem is solved. > > Thanks. > Paul > > On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 8:20 PM, Alex English <[email protected]>wrote: > >> All Pauls and all, >> >> Interesting subject title. Having grown,combined,ground,sifted wheat and >> burned wheat 'berries" and wheat short blended pellets at times over the >> past 35 years, this is the first time I have heard the term 'wheat husk'. >> My failure to separate husk from chaff. >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Wheat_middlings<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat_middlings> >> >> We can buy into energy conspiracies but they only go so far. Having >> watched greenhouse boiler fuel gyrations during energy price spikes, I can >> pull my head out of the oven and tell you that cleaning and maintaining a >> 'natural' gas fired boiler is as close to the 'aspirational' desk job as a >> farmer gets. A boiler fired with oat-hull/wheat-short blended pellets is >> continueally coated with sticky ash. It all makes work for the working-man >> to do, or avoid doing. Opposite ends of a fuel spectrum with labor and >> equipment costs playing a huge role in the decision. Where is that >> spreadsheet? >> >> There are quite a few pellet mills experiments around and most are having >> significant difficulties with ag residues and energy crops. Youtube videos >> only go so far, but its early days, or decades. >> >> >> Visions of pyrolysis stoves in the kitchens of North America are >> borderline male fantasy. Try the patio dadios first. That will be a tough >> enough sell. Not enough smoke flavor. >> >> A man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's pyrolysis for? >> >> "That's nice, now take it outside dear, I have a meal to prepare, and >> also the insurance company said no" :) >> >> >> But your rice hull stove still seems like a pretty good niche. At least >> from a distance. >> >> Alex in Wonderfulland. >> A practitioner of the combustion arts and letters. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 11/06/2013 10:37 PM, Paul Olivier wrote: >> >>> Yes, Otto, you are right. >>> >>> Big Oil receives subsides from the US government. Its lobbying effort is >>> colossal. It has succeeded in convincing most of us that it has all the >>> answers. The infrastructure it has set up is vigilantly supported by the US >>> military. In our design of stoves, we should do everything we can to make >>> sure that we are not taken in by their lies. As Shell Oil, says in an >>> advertisement: "We at Shell believe that the world should have a broader >>> mix of energies". And then they point to natural gas. >>> >>> Paul Olivier >>> >>> >>> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> Stoves mailing list >> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >> [email protected].**org <[email protected]> >> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >> http://lists.bioenergylists.**org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_** >> lists.bioenergylists.org<http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org> >> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >> http://stoves.bioenergylists.**org/ <http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/> >> >> > > > -- > Paul A. Olivier PhD > 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong > Dalat > Vietnam > > Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam) > Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam) > Skype address: Xpolivier > http://www.esrla.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > > -- Paul A. Olivier PhD 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong Dalat Vietnam Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam) Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam) Skype address: Xpolivier http://www.esrla.com/
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