DOES NOT SETTLE.
Vantage number one said the Elephant sitting on the banks of the great Grey Greasy Limpopo River.. I was thinking could they be extruded into board/bats with some kind of binder as well. I suspect the volumous piles of rice hull are shortly going to be some thing of a treasure.: Insulation? Ternmite resistant press board? Fuel? Vantage number ??? say the elephant as he sneeze3d a pile into the river. Michael, Marshall Islands > The R-value per inch on rice hulls was 3. > And unlike cellulose insulation, if properly installed, they do not settle > over time. > https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22013094/Rice%20Hull%20House/ASTM/114941Report.pdf > https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22013094/Rice%20Hull%20House/ASTM/astm1.pdf > I even built what was called a Rice Hull House: > https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22013094/Rice%20Hull%20House/The-Rice-Hull-House2.pdf > > Thanks. > Paul > > On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 9:31 AM, Kevin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Dear Paul > > > > Very interesting!! > > > > Sawdust has an "R-Factor" of about 2 BTU-hr/ft^2- degF-inch. Would you > > recall the R-Factor for Rice Hulls? > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Kevin > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > FROM: Paul Olivier > > > > TO: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves > > > > > > SENT: Thursday, June 13, 2013 11:22 PM > > SUBJECT: Re: [Stoves] Meat grinder fuels for TLUDs was Re: wheat husk > > pellets > > > > Tom, > > > > Ten years ago I had worked a Carl Simpson of Ricelandin Arkansas on the > > idea of using rice hulls as insulation. We found out that untreated rice > > hulls make an excellent insulation, and unlike cellulose insulation, > > chemicals do not have to be added to rice hulls to make them fire and fungi > > resistant. Untreated rice hulls passed all ASTM tests for insulation > > materials. Carl told me of piles of rice hulls that had been in place > > outdoors for over 20 years. Rice hulls do not decompose very easily. I do > > not know much about wheat hulls. > > > > Paul Olivier > > > > On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 4:39 AM, Tom Miles <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Fair enough. Wheat byproducts that I have worked with are usually either > > > a granular or powdery meal. I don´t know how much hulls would break down > > > biologically. Proabbly not much since they are used as a bulking agent > > > for compost. __ > > > > > > __ > > > > > > Tom__ > > > > > > __ > > > > > > FROM: Stoves [mailto:[email protected]] ON BEHALF > > > OF Legacy Mail > > > SENT: Thursday, June 13, 2013 2:18 PM > > > > > > TO: Discussion of biomass cookingstoves > > > CC: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves > > > > > > > > > SUBJECT: Re: [Stoves] Meat grinder fuels for TLUDswas Re: wheat husk > > > pellets__ > > > > > > __ > > > > > > > > > Tom, Paul,__ > > > > > > > > > the problem with running a fiberbound residue through, especially, an > > > augur driven meat mincer type die, is that the process itself tends to > > > shear the very fibers that do the binding. 1" dia x 1 long sausages are > > > about as small as you can go from our experience .__ > > > > > > > > > Richard__ > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone__ > > > > > > On Jun 12, 2013, at21:07, "Tom Miles" <[email protected]> wrote:__ > > > > > > > > > Paul,__ > > > > > > __ > > > > > > The hulls would have to be incorporated into a meal that when dried would > > > form into a ball or pellet shape by using something like a meat grinder. > > > It might be possible to "ret" them with the coffee skins a la > > > Bryant/Legacy. Then you would have something to form. I have always > > > experienced a large quantity of fines with rice husks and straw. You > > > could tie those up by combining them in a meal but you need something > > > fibrous to hold them together. __ > > > > > > __ > > > > > > Think of other uses for composted rice husks. I know someone who has made > > > thousands of cubic yards of peat substitute by composting rice husks. So > > > it is clearly possible to biologically "process" the husks to a > > > beneficial form. Once you have composted the hulls why use them as fuel? > > > They could be better as a soil amendment. The composting should generate > > > biological binders that would give you a choice of densification methods. > > > Pressing hulls through a metal die will just wear out the die. Probably > > > not the first choice. I think there is a form of fuel or soil amendment > > > that could be created. Meanwhile keep the day job and perfect your rice > > > husk TLUD __ > > > > > > __ > > > > > > Tom __ > > > > > > __ > > > > > > __ > > > > > > FROM: Stoves [mailto:[email protected]] ON BEHALF > > > OF Paul Olivier > > > SENT: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 7:38PM > > > TO: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves > > > SUBJECT:Re: [Stoves] Meat grinder fuels for TLUDs was Re: wheat husk > > > pellets__ > > > > > > __ > > > > > > Tom's explanation still leaves me with a few questions.__ > > > > > > Would the rice hull have to be ground into a powder to go through a meat > > > grinder?__ > > > > > > It takes a lot of energy and maintenance to grind up rice hulls.__ > > > > > > With a conventional pellet machine, rice hulls do not have to be ground > > > up.__ > > > > > > > > > What binder would be used with rice hulls?__ > > > > > > > > > __ > > > > > > Paul__ > > > > > > > > > __ > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Paul Anderson <[email protected]> > > > wrote:__ > > > > > > Stovers, > > > > > > Tom gave a good explanation. Hismessage is now in the Listserv > > > Archives. But how can such content be made more available for future > > > readers?__ > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > Paul S.Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD" > > > Email: [email protected] Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072 > > > Website: www.drtlud.com__ > > > > > > On 6/12/2013 4:24 AM, Tom Miles wrote:__ > > > > > > Andrew, > > > > > > Goodexplanation. > > > > > > Think of two methods of forming fuels. One requireshigh heat and pressure. > > > The other requires water and biological orchemical degradation. > > > > > > Heat, pressure and some moisture (10% MC) arerequired for densification to > > > pellets, briquettes or fire logs. A drybiomass is finely ground and > > > pressed > > > through a metal die. There are twoprincipal binding mechanisms. In one, > > > cellulose fibers pressed togetherwith heat removes excess water and the > > > fibers are bonded to each otherthrough what is called paper bonding, or > > > hydrogen bonding. It is likewetting two pieces of paper and letting them > > > dry out. They aredifficult to pull apart. This is a chemical bond that is > > > a > > > majorbonding mechanism for most densification. When you break the pellet > > > or > > > briquette it falls apart rather than snaps. > > > A secondmechanism is lignin plastic flow, as Andrew describes below. The > > > ligninand part of the celluloses actually plasticize and flow. Under high > > > power magnification with a scanning electron microscope a portionof the > > > wood looks like solid plastic with no identifiable fibers. Thesepellets > > > snap when you break them. > > > > > > Both mechanisms are at play ina densifier. Together these mechanisms make > > > a > > > durable pellet orbriquette. As Andrew points out they require power and > > > an > > > extrusion process like a pellet mill. > > > > > > A third mechanism thatis used with mechanical densifiers is adding > > > chemical > > > binders,starches, or even expanding clays. These were employed in the > > > older,low power cubers and briquetters to make animal feed. Molasses based > > > binders were added to help stick hay together in cubes and to addnitrogen > > > (protein) etc. They often added 30% to the cost of the feed.We used sodium > > > hydroxide to hydrolyze straw to make it pliable formaking cubes. It had > > > the > > > advantage of making the straw more digestablefor the animals. This was > > > fine > > > for using low quality feeds like strawin times of feed shortage but too > > > expensive when feed pricesfell. > > > > > > Wet methods of forming fuels are like the method described byRichard > > > Stanley. Using water, chemicals, or biological degradation thebiomass is > > > softened and the surface become sticky. You make a pulp,meal, or dough. > > > You > > > can then use a press, like a piston press (a laBryant), a meat grinder, a > > > roller mill, or a cement mixer (Davis) toform the fuel into balls or > > > bricks. Then you dry it out. The stickingmechanisms include the paper > > > bonding, as described above, and adhesionby any number of sugars, > > > starches, > > > etc. that are activated or releasedby the process. The dried fuel is not > > > as > > > dense as a pellet or briquettebut it is uniform, it stays together, and It > > > burns very well becausefor the form of the fuel. > > > > > > When we worked with Ben Bryant in the1970s and 1980s we tried a number of > > > simple wet pulping processes tomake building products for both developed > > > and developing countries andfibers for erosion control. Some of his > > > products from this period arestill made commercially. In the 1990s Ben > > > introduced me to Richard andhow he was applying some of the same wet > > > forming principles to makebricks for fuel (and for growing seedlings). The > > > lesson is to learn andunderstand how natural fibers and fiber chemistry > > > can > > > be used to anadvantage. Sometimes a small percentage of long wet fibers > > > can > > > be usedto bind together dry fine particles. > > > > > > Torrefaction. Think oftorrefaction as roasting biomass fuel in the absence > > > of air. Biomass is heated first to dry it, then in the absence of air to > > > 280C. At this temperature it is completely dry and some of thecellulose > > > has > > > converted to gas. You lose about 30% of the weight and10% of the heating > > > value. The fuel is in the same form that you startedwith but it is dry and > > > brittle. If you have a densifier then it takesless energy to pelletize it. > > > The pellets store well because they resistmoisture. Torrefaction is used > > > primarily for preparing wood fuel forburning with coal in very large > > > utility boilers. There are severaltorrefaction projects in Europe and a > > > few > > > in North America. A plant inMississippi has shipped a couple of large > > > barge > > > loads of torrefied woodto customers in Europe. > > > > > > There was a project in Rwanda some yearsago that used partial torrefaction > > > to prepare fuel bricks for domesticuse. A professor from the US designed > > > a > > > small torrefier andinstalled it in a refuse fuel operation run by a > > > women's > > > coop. Thetorrefied biomass was formed into a brick using a fire log maker > > > likethe Shimada machine. A USAID employee we contacted knew of the project > > > but did not know if it was still in operation. I haven't heardof any > > > similar projects at the small scale. > > > > > > I hope that thislong-winded explanation helps make these processes clear. > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > -----OriginalMessage----- > > > From: Stoves [mailto:[email protected]] On BehalfOf > > > [email protected] > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 20131:01 AM > > > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves > > > Subject: Re:[Stoves] Meat grinder fuels for TLUDs was Re: wheat husk > > > pellets > > > > > > [Default] On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 12:53:02 +0700,PaulOlivier > > > <[email protected]> wrote:__ > > > > > > How does lignin soften to become a binding agent using a meat grinder? > > > This would be truly wonderful, if it weretrue.__ > > > > > > It won't with a meat grinder, you will need some sort of binder, like > > > boiled starch orclay. > > > > > > Lignin plastisises under high pressure and heat, the heat isnormally > > > derived from the friction of the material passing through thedie. At > > > these pressures the cell walls collapse and then the lignin resets to > > > form a pellet that is denser than the wood it was made from.All these > > > systems use a lot of power and the expensive dieswear. > > > > > > The Shimada press is the one that produces a hexagonal logwith a hole > > > down the middle, often blackened on the outside from theheat from the > > > press walls. > > > > > > Similarly rotary die extruders use pinch rollers to punch small > > > amounts of feed through theholes. > > > > > > > > > Have a look at: > > > > > > http://www.fao.org/docrep/x5738e/x5738e0j.htm > > > > > > > > > AJH > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Stoves mailing list > > > > > > to Send a Message to the list, use the emailaddress > > > [email protected] > > > > > > to UNSUBSCRIBE orChange your List Settings use the web page > > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists > > > .org > > > > > > formore Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > > > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Stovesmailing list > > > > > > to Send a Message to the list, use the emailaddress > > > [email protected] > > > > > > to UNSUBSCRIBE orChange your List Settings use the web page > > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > > > formore Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > > > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/__ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Stovesmailing list > > > > > > to Send a Message to the list, use the emailaddress > > > [email protected] > > > > > > to UNSUBSCRIBE orChange your List Settings use the web page > > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > > > formore Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > > > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/__ > > > > > > -- > > > Paul A. OlivierPhD > > > 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong > > > Dalat > > > Vietnam > > > > > > Louisianatelephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam) > > > Mobile: 090-694-1573 (inVietnam) > > > Skype address: Xpolivier > > > http://www.esrla.com/ __ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Stovesmailing list > > > > to Send a Message to the list, use the emailaddress > > [email protected] > > > > to UNSUBSCRIBE orChange your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > formore Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/__ > > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the emailaddress > [email protected] > > toUNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > formore Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ -- Paul A. Olivier PhD 26/5 Phu Dong ThienVuong Dalat Vietnam Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (ringsVietnam) Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam) Skype address:Xpolivier http://www.esrla.com/ ------------------------- _______________________________________________ Stoves mailinglist to Send a Message to the list, use the emailaddress [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Changeyour List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org formore Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ -- Paul A. Olivier PhD 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong Dalat Vietnam Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam) Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam) Skype address: Xpolivier http://www.esrla.com/
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