Dear Kevin, at least in my State (Maharashtra, India), there are some 150 factories which compress agricultural waste into fuel briquettes. They pay farmers Rs.2000 per ton (about US$33) for the agri-waste, so that the farmers transport it at their own cost to the factory. Industries use these briquettes as boiler fuel. Using biomass briquettes costs only 30% of what one would pay for fuel oil. Yours A.D.Karve On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Kevin <[email protected]> wrote:
> Dear AD > > 800,000,000 tons of Agricultural Waste is indeed a huge potential > resource! How should it be handled to be of the highest possible value to > the People of India? > > Clearly: > * Some should be returned to the soil directly to improve soil organic > matter > * Some should be composted, and added back to the soil > * Some should be converted to char for use as biochar > * Some should be converted to char for use as fuel > * Some should be used directly as fuel > * Some should be processed into pellets or briquettes for energy use > * Some should be used as animal feed > * Some should be incinerated simply to dispose of excess in the least > costly manner > * Some should be used to make useful by-products > * Others....??? > > I would suggest that the People of India would get the greatest value for > this potential resource if it was put to "diverse uses", rather than all > being used for a single purpose. > > Best wishes, > > Kevin > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Anand Karve <[email protected]> > *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<[email protected]> > *Sent:* Friday, November 15, 2013 2:31 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] planting trees ( the way I'd do it 1, 000, 000, > 000 years from now) > > Dear Stovers, > We convert agricultural waste into charcoal by using a TLUD type of kiln > and briquette the powdery char. In India, we produce annually about 800 > million tons of agricultural waste, which can theoretically yield about 166 > million tons of charcoal. There is no need to cut any trees for charcoal. > Yours > A.D.Karve > > > On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 9:43 PM, Cookswell Jikos <[email protected] > > wrote: > >> OK.... as discouraging as the facts may be, the facts are reality, and >> they must be dealt with to avoid future problems. >> 1: Can different species be grown, that have higher Mean Annual >> Increments of growth? >> Yes - at least in East African drylands - the traditional colonial >> methods of silviculture were focused on high land pine >> and cypress plantations not indigenous dry land adapted trees. (which now >> provides the feedstock for more of Kenyas charcoal) Since 1994 we have been >> experimenting with different dryland planting and agronomic techniques >> (please see >> http://www.acts.or.ke/dmdocuments/PROJECT_REPORTS/PISCES_Sustainable_Charcoal.pdf >> pg. >> 7) and most of our findings so far have led us to belive that endimic tree >> species managed in a holistic and permacutrual manner produce coppiced >> 'branch' charcoal with an excellent life cycle analysis profile. >> >> 2: Can the woodlots be managed better? >> I think there is always room for improvement in many fields, but I >> have definitely noticed more small and large farms in Kenya appling more of >> a conservation agriculture approach to land use planning. >> >> 3: Can cooking practises be changed? >> Yes - but with great difficulty. Imagine me coming from Kenya to tell >> your grandma that she's all wrong and vice versa... >> >> What I have found though is that as people achieve higher incomes (and >> watch more TV) in East Africa cooking energy sources becomes more mixed and >> more specialized depending on the dish being cooked. >> >> 4: Would more efficient stoves help significantly? >> The Kenya Ceramic Jiko has been one of the most widely disseminated >> cookstoves in East Africa, on one hand, it saves users up to 50% on their >> charcoal bills compared to all metal non-insulated stoves. On the other >> hand, me and my father always wondered that if by making popularly stove >> that made it cheaper and easier to use charcoal coupled >> with population growth, did we not create more of a fuel dependency? This >> is why since the 1990's we have been advocating as much as possible to >> encourage all other stove makers to also think about provisions for >> reafforestation efforts. >> >> >> 5: Can other forms of fuel, or other sources of energy, be used to take >> some of the pressure off the woodlots? >> Please see this recently released quite amazing document from ICRAF >> http://www.slideshare.net/agroforestry/miyuki-iiyamaicrafcharcoal-review2013 >> ''What >> happend to the charcoal crisis?'' >> >> Yes, but if as WWF has seen in Virunga, if people switch to fossil fuels, >> what happens when they are found under forests? And even solar cookers and >> microwaves may not help as much as if one takes into account the Life Cycle >> Analysis of the transport, computing power to design one etc... a 3 stone >> fire and growing your own trees start looking more attractive. >> >> I am a great proponent of tree based biomass energy for at least people's >> sunday BBQ's ( which is a huge cause of charcoal us in Kenya!) due to the >> fact of all the other ecological trickledown effects. >> >> 6: Would some form of "Agroforestry" be possible, to put the land to a >> higher use, with multi-cropping? >> ...etc... >> >> yes we have tried food, fuel and fodder combinations to good effect in >> Kajiado - linear non-woodlot forestry is beginning to create more of >> an appearance in this area as land becomes adjudicated and title deeds >> issued. Land tenure is a huge obstacle to forestry in Kenya, this is why >> I personally am in favour of things like aerial seeding programs - if we >> some how grow too many trees, we will always be able to cut them down to >> cook with! >> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.622109591163773.1073741929.199734683401268&type=1&l=0b605799ef >> >> Many thanks for your response. >> >> Teddy >> >> *Cookswell Jikos* >> www.cookswell.co.ke >> www.facebook.com/CookswellJikos >> www.kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com >> Mobile: +254 700 380 009 >> Mobile: +254 700 905 913 >> P.O. Box 1433, Nairobi 00606, Kenya >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 5:15 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Kevin and Stovers, >>> I am desperately wanting to farther study points 1,2,5 and 6. You >>> got my attention buddy. Sorry, I don't have a 100 year old experiment to >>> show you the results of my work. I do not do research papers because I'm an >>> illiterate idiot. Many of you who have been on this list a while may >>> remember- this letter will be a small record of the state of a sample of my >>> research. Nobody has me asked this lately but you, Kevin. I'll probably die >>> knowing and wanting to know way more than I can ever tell, if I talked the >>> rest of my life. It just seems to bore everybody but some Biomass people. I >>> miss you all out here alone trapped in the future. >>> My extensive experience with landscaping and gardening suggests we >>> have only begun to barely scratch the surface of multicropping research. >>> Mother Nature has done an amazing job of this, but we are not after the >>> same goals as her. Typical natural forestry suggests that a 3 layer canopy >>> is most efficent in biomass productive environments. As we push into less >>> productive land, that will be different in both directions. . What each >>> layer consists of for any given set of environmental conditions is has wide >>> increasingly complex variables. Someday 100 years from now, a computer >>> program will be crunching in whatever is the Cray Super Computer of that >>> age. It will tell the then modern forester what works best- maybe. Then, >>> only experiments to compare the real time data to to the computer model >>> will fine tune the long term plan. >>> Modern complex forestry computer programs mostly focus on select >>> harvest models. Computer planting programs just use current harvest data to >>> optimise plantation - type management. How do you get data on trees that >>> take 300 years or more to be fully mature? Recent studies suggest that >>> 1000 year old Redwoods are still increasing in biomass production over >>> younger trees. Got 1000 years to collect data?? Maybe we should be breeding >>> many trees to grow 1000 years. >>> If we make half the progress growing trees that we have made in a >>> typical productive vegetable garden in 4000 or more years, you can throw >>> out the predictions for production numbers. New numbers may be easily a >>> power of ten more productive. Just look what small changes have brought us. >>> When you consider the efficiency of photosynthisis to convert sunlight into >>> chemical energy, that number theoreticlly can go two powers of ten or more. >>> Not only do we need to first optimise growing technique, but then optimise >>> breeding, and back to growing technique and so fourth. >>> I don't even want to consider pandoras box of geneticly modified >>> plants. I think outer space is the best place to release them so they don't >>> contaminate our biosphere like GM corn has. I considered that thought over >>> 20 years ago and it merged with my childhood idea of growing trees on the >>> moon and on orbit. That is why I've wanted to merge a greenhouse with a >>> blacksmith shop. It's how space homesteads will do it. I discussed this >>> issue at a hydroponics conference in the early 1990's and everybodys eyes >>> rolled, so I just went out and worked on it with what I had. Nobody came to >>> collect the amazing data I saw everyday for twenty years. A few years ago, >>> my greenhouse was forced to close and my finacial situation has nearly >>> halted all my research. I hope to slowly get back in the game if I don't >>> loose my new 5 acre farm. It is Gods gift to me for my study. Most of the >>> assets of this land are hidden and only of use to me. >>> Most of the forests today are being primarlily managed for lumber of >>> some type. Hunting wildlife is about the only large second crop. Small >>> private lands and prototype corporate plantations are where the experiments >>> are being done. When we start to combine orchard and vegetable production >>> with forestry, the sky is the limit. I take that back, how far has the Big >>> Bang blown things open today? That is the limit. And this is how we will >>> get out there if we do, over a billion years of future evolution and space >>> travel. Call me crazy, but I saw a powerful vision as a child that told me >>> this. You just keep moving the decimal point on the equation. Carl Sagan >>> must have seen a vision like mine, and so I supported his work long ago. >>> Most thought he was craazy too. Thanks Carl. >>> I have been blessed to spend a little time with one of the greatest >>> foresters of our generation. John Guthrie of Wiggins Mississippi fame. My >>> crash course in Southern USA forestry, shortly after Hurricane Katrina, >>> taught me the following: The closer we get to understanding the original >>> native environment, the better we can merge our needs to the use of the >>> land given to us. >>> John would be first to tell you that if only a higher power can make >>> a tree, who are we to decide how and where to grow it? That has led him to >>> push the reintroduction of missing native tree species which have been >>> eliminated one at a time. Grown in plantations to examine and focuse on >>> each, longleaf pine is a good example. It was like the White Oak tree, the >>> king of the forest, until it was logged nearly to extinction. Currently, >>> burning of undergrowth is done like the Natives did for management in early >>> stage plantations. Timing is everything. We had lively conversation about >>> grazing and/ or underplanting of numerous shrub species to reduce this >>> practice. I think I opened up his mind by the smile on his face. Some >>> private plantations were doing this on a very basic experimental level in >>> 2006. >>> The forest plot I was camped in, had longleaf pine being >>> interplanted where select thining was being done to young Southern Yellow >>> Pine, It was John"s land right behind the International Paper plant, so I >>> think it was a prototype. The thinnings were going mostly to chip and saw >>> for OSB and other products. The small thinings were hauled at harvest cost >>> for pulp. Katrina opened it up more - as if God were saying to John " you >>> got the idea boy, now go with it and I'll help yu". >>> Dr. Michler I belive is his name, discussed his work at Purdue U. >>> with me about 10 years ago. At the time he was pioneering in the selecting >>> of 3 hardwood species: Red Oak, Black Cherry, and Walnut. An Indiana >>> nursery was selling the products of tissue culture of the best selected >>> species. Breeding of hardwoods was still in it's infancy. The new science >>> then was using gene mapping to select known genes to assist breeding of >>> trees which were only starting to bear fruit. That is very exciting -more >>> productive and safe than GM plants. I called because I wanted to know if >>> anybody had studied growing trees to make charcoal fuel and he wondered >>> what for..... >>> Kevin, I would like to add to your bucket list a huge compounding >>> factor number 7. What happens when we do all of the above, yet look at >>> secondary and multiple layers of recycling of plants. For a great example >>> you and I may have discussed the fact that Charcoal production for an >>> industrial fuel may be the best utimate landfill killer. Demolition waste >>> must be the largest growing filler of landfills. I have done limited >>> research into which trees produce the best metallurgical charcoal. What >>> happens when we breed trees for example, to both build houses, then reuse >>> the wood to fuel a blast furnace to make the finest iron ever made?. The >>> two uses are very compatible. Just so happens that some of the strongest >>> hardwoods as well as pine species make real clean charcoal. The hardwoods >>> make the most dense charcoal by nature. We can also infuse charcoal with >>> additional hydrocarbons in the conversion process, with net energy >>> production. If we grow walnut trees for example, we can produce food and >>> many chemicals too at no additional cost. >>> Nearly every organic chemical can be coaxed from living material. >>> Don't even get me started on the chemical refinery/production avenue. I've >>> said enough. I cannot do much more or take time to record what I've found >>> out or can find out without a break in life somewhere. That is why I don't >>> contribute much anymore to these lists. It gets me all excited, and then >>> frustration sets in. I have 3 kids to raise and cannot waste my time >>> playing with the future of mankind when I need food stamps. >>> Enough said. >>> >>> >>> Ok , do I have anybodies attention now??? >>> I have to get off the computer so my Son can do his homework, >>> Sorry, no time for editing or additional info tonight. >>> >>> Dan Dimiduk >>> Shangri- La Research. >>> >>> >>> In a message dated 11/13/2013 7:41:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, >>> [email protected] writes: >>> >>> Dear RB >>> >>> OK.... as discouraging as the facts may be, the facts are reality, and >>> they must be dealt with to avoid future problems. >>> 1: Can different species be grown, that have higher Mean Annual >>> Increments of growth? >>> 2: Can the woodlots be managed better? >>> 3: Can cooking practises be changed? >>> 4: Would more efficient stoves help significantly? >>> 5: Can other forms of fuel, or other sources of energy, be used to take >>> some of the pressure off the woodlots? >>> 6: Would some form of "Agroforestry" be possible, to put the land to a >>> higher use, with multi-cropping? >>> ...etc... >>> >>> Most people like to do things the way they have always been done. They >>> can't expect different results if they do things the same way they have >>> always done things in the past. The cruel facts are that if they want >>> different results, then they will have to find changes that are acceptable >>> to them, OR choose to live with the consequences of their present >>> practises. Those seem to be the cruel realities. >>> >>> Best wishes, >>> >>> Kevin >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Stoves mailing list >>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>> [email protected] >>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >>> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ >>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Stoves mailing list >> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >> [email protected] >> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org >> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: >> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ >> >> >> > > > -- > *** > Dr. A.D. Karve > Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI) > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Stoves mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ > > > -- *** Dr. A.D. Karve Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
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