Index of SPPS Budget Discussion http://www.e-democracy.org/stpaul/spps-posts.html _________________________________________ My apologies to Tim and anyone else who felt offended by the language in my post but I was merely trying to respond in kind to what seemed to me to be some kind of gloating in the number of people at the capitol, that somehow big numbers made something right out of something definitely wrong. I chose the "un-American", "anti-American" and "bigot" wording to hopefully shock a few of these folks into really thinking about what they are asking the legislature to do.
I hope that they think back to the eras of Joe McCarthy and the Civil Rights Movement of the 50's and 60's. I used it in an attempt to wake them up to what they are really asking--a la Mark Twain in the story THE WAR PRAYER. If you have not read it, I strongly recommend it for everyone. It is very short and can be found online here http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/making/warprayer.html . And if we are so anxious to codify biblical marriage then let us remember Tamara whose husband died before impregnating her and his brother Onan was struck dead by God for refusing to perform that function for his brother and spilling his seed upon the ground so she played a prostitute and tricked her father-in-law into impregnating her, asking for his signet ring in payment. When the father-in-law found out she was pregnant he was about to have her slain for infidelity when she produced the ring of the man who had got her pregnant and he realized she had been fully within the law. Let's hear it for the great tradition of MARRIAGE as found in the Bible. And return women to the status of property which should take care of that pesky abortion issue since her womb will belong to her husband! I apologize in advance if this seems offensive but these are simply responses to the hue and cry that somehow marriage has been the same since biblical days. Steve Nelson STILL happily, heteroly, unthreatenedly married in Willard Hay, Minneapolis > In response to the following statements: > > "anti-American" > "bigoted religious zealots" > > I'd like to submit the following opinions for your consideration. I'm > posting this as a citizen and not list manager, although it very much > reflects my opinions as the list manager. > > One of the reasons that I manage this list, is a from a very deep and > sincere political belief that for our democracy to function > effectively - we need to collectively take a hard look at how we > disagree and debate one another. I've felt the sting of having my own > opinions dismissed and insulted by people who are close to me, but > felt no compunction to listen - because they already have the truth. > > I'm interested in creating places online and in real space, where > individuals with dramatically different perspectives and political > viewpoints can respectfully engage each other in discussions about > controversial and normally divisive topics. > > As "bigoted" as the proposed constitutional amendment appears in many > of our eyes, using that terminology in this type of discussion does > nothing more than inflame emotions, deepen ideological divides, and > stifle real discussion. > > As deeply as I disagree with close family members and friends about > the issues regarding homosexuality and "same-sex" marriage, I refuse > (or try not) to act with the arrogance and self-righteousness with > which others have treated me. > > Unless, I'm willing to show some respect for those with whom I'm > disagree, there is no room for discussion. > > While some members of this forum come here to share the "truth" (both > from the left and right) and don't give a damn about those who > disagree with them, I hope that the majority come with a willingness > to share opinions - but also to listen and learn - especially when > the topic is emotional and controversial. > > As appropriate as it may feel, calling people "bigots" accomplishes > little except giving oneself a short term feeling of satisfaction. It > certainly does not increase the chance that one will be heard by ones > opponents, it alienates those in the middle, and it distracts the > discussion away from the issue - which is what everyone came here to > talk about. > > These are my opinions, to which I welcome responses - rebuttals - and > thoughtful criticisms. I prefer that they come in private, because > the subject is somewhat off-topic for the forum. > > Best wishes, > > Tim Erickson > Hamline Midway > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > _____________________________________________ SPPS Budget Reduction Forum - Feb. 23-27 Co-Sponsored By NEAT: http://www.stpaulneat.org/ _____________________________________________ NEW ADDRESS FOR LIST: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, modify subscription, or get your password - visit: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/stpaul Archive Address: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/private/stpaul/
