Final chance to comment on rules revision, go to: http://e-democracy.org/rules --------------------------------------- In truth, the peak of streetcar ridership was 1921 or 1922. The last new rail wa laid in 1932. Twin City Lines bought the competing bus companies in 1924 and 1925. They also bought a controlling share in the taxi company because "it would be better for the public for one company to provide all public transportation."
Read the annual reports, where they complained about Lowry forcing new money-losing lines to make profits for his real estate ventures. Read how they hated the fact that the public thought that there should be more bus lines put in because it didn't cost as much as rail. About Charlie's post: The Portland streetcar is what Hales will talk about. How many seats does a Portland streetcar have? 30 + 120 standing. $56.9 million to build a 5 mile loop and buy 7 cars. Stops every 2 blocks. Costs $2.4 million a year to carry 5,000 people a day, esimated fare revenue $100,000 per year. Average of 20 minutes to go 2.5 miles end-to-end, or around 7.5 mph. http://www.trainweb.org/mccann/streetcar.htm Or maybe it's 30 + 87 standing (4 per square meter). http://www.dtev-vta.org/docs/SCAR%20streetcar%20concepts.PDF (about 3/4 of the way through.) Is the listed capacity of 300 "crush load"? I'm talking seats because people aren't going to ride a slow train crammed in like NYC subways. You don't buy dual units unless the demand is there and I doubt that it will ever be there. About Mike's reply: I'm not talking about some traffic avoiding Grand, I'm talking about MOST traffic avoiding Grand. One of the main uses of the fareless square in Portland is to drive to a street near it and park, then take the free train and avoid paying for downtown parking. The Portland streetcar system which carries 5,000 one- way trips a day, costs $2.4 million a year to operate and gets $100,000 in fares. It's clear how many rides are outside of the fareless square. Jackie asked why the owner of Midway Books "hates transit". He doesn't. He sees that lrt down University will be a killer for small businesses. When you have rush hour backups from Prior to Robert with only 5 - 6 short blocks free of backup in that stretch (as predicted in the EIS), businesses will suffer. They will also suffer during construction. But of course, most lrt pushers see the ideal businesses near train stops as "florists, dry cleaners, and coffee shops." My position is that the public should be offered the choice to use transit, not a choice of which transit to use. It costs a lot more to offer trains than buses, just to try to entice those who have cars onto transit. As I have often said here, Metro Transit asid a few years ago that they could double the number of buses in operation for $440 million. If we were to build University lrt in addition to the existing line, the price tag would be $1,500 million and the projected increase in one-way transit trips would be about 20,000 per day. That's less than 10% of the current ridership. I don't think that we should necessarily double the number of buses, depending on ridership patterns, but transit industry experience is that doubling the number of buses on a route increases ridership by about 50%. Transit has been cut back and it's doubtful that the long-term total transit ridership will be much above the prior bus-only system. You can't know stable rideship on the new line until about a year has passed, due to the novelty effect. So far, it seems like a lot of the rideship has been sports fans avoiding the doem parking costs. Maybe the Twins and Vikings should kick in for a share of the operating costs. Visit www.EffectiveTransit.org The Independent Unsubsidized Voice of Citizens for Effective Transit in the Twin Cities (no lrt) * lrt isn't a potato chip, you can stop at just one * Bruce Gaarder Highland Park Saint Paul MN [EMAIL PROTECTED] _____________________________________________ To Join: St. Paul Issues Forum Rules Discussion Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ____________________________________________ NEW ADDRESS FOR LIST: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, modify subscription, or get your password - visit: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/stpaul Archive Address: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/private/stpaul/
