In my opinion, we need to strengthen the urban core. That will include, as you've said, strong transportation and commercial corridors as well as housing.
Urban planning is not my forte so I just don't understand why our space downtown is so empty. It seems simple enough to me to encourage smart growth within the urban core which requires a strong transportation system. We also need to be highly HIGHLY aware of impacts to urban core dwellers that nudge them to the outskirts when transportation corridors, airports and industry are concentrated at the epicenter. We will never achieve our goals if we make our urban environment difficult to live within.
Michelle Hoffman West Side On Feb 24, 2005, at 9:08 AM, Gail wrote:
Paul speaks of the inevitable growth of the cities and our interest in seeing it planned wisely. I agree, with reservations. The exponential growth of the 20th century is behind us. Despite projections of population growth (which sometimes are mystifying to me), we hear also that we graybeards will break Social Security because there won't be enough younger people to support the system.
So where will the growth come from? This is a genuine question, probably for another thread, but we can say for certain that some of it will be from immigration. Building on that strength, I think we need to focus on the Central Corridor and improvements to the existing system. Transit into downtown is important, but what will there be to make downtown attractive if we've encouraged families to move farther and farther away?
This morning's article on the frustration of people demanding attention to Hwy 100 underscores the need to re-examine what's "etched in stone." How can we make the Cities vibrant and healthy so we don't become another Detroit? This has nothing to do with building a wall; it has to do with making our city a great place to live and make a living.
Gail O'Hare
St. Paul
Message: 6 Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 23:52:33 -0600 From: Bob Spaulding <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [StPaul] ... Transit To: St Paul Issues Forum <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Dear "Blue State Curmudgeon",
You raise a question that I too initially asked.
Like it or not (and I generally fall into the latter category), the
Twin Cities is going to expand around the fringes. We've expanded a
ton since I was a kid, and walked across what is now I-394 regularly.
The question is how we are going to grow. Do we add highway lanes,
that encourage the more sprawling auto-oriented development? Or do we
do a mix of new highways and new transit lines, that encourage the
development of more traditional town centers, like those that developed
in North St. Paul, Hopkins, Stillwater or Excelsior, often around the
streetcars?
In the case of Northstar, there is a direct tradeoff between plowing
more money into adding lanes to I-94 and US 10 that go from Minneapolis
to St. Cloud. Northstar will direct us to more traditional, compact
growth in town centers, and will eliminate the need to add 1.5 highway
lanes (according to http://www.northstartrain.org)
I can't cite a specific study, but I understand it holds true that a
train increases the likelihood that an "exurban" commuter will commute
into a downtown core, and reduces congestion on urban freeways. Would
you rather drive an hour, or take a train for an hour? Now you have a
choice, and we Americans generally like choice. Commuter trains
therefore also makes the urban core more attractive for new jobs,
corporate headquarters and investment.
The link to St. Paul here is why, then, Red Rock and Rush Line are
important. The train lines help direct growth to more compact town
centers, as opposed to directing it to sprawled suburban development we
see with a highways only approach. But most significantly for St. Paul
in particular, it will provide a needed boost for downtown. And even
if you never go downtown, the downtown can and should pay a big chunk
of the property tax bill, so you don't have to. So in that sense, you
should care.
That said, there is an order to the transit projects that is frankly
pretty much written in stone at this point. Hiawatha, then Northstar,
then Central Corridor, then Red Rock/Rush/Southwest (in some order).
Questioning that wisdom may be a good discussion topic, but the
consensus is so broad, including so many governmental units, chambers
of commerce, legislators, congresspeople, and corporate leaders, that
it's not really going to change. Perhaps someday our highway
expenditures will receive a comparable amount of scrutiny.
Bob Spaulding Downtown
On Feb 23, 2005, at 10:38 PM, Gail wrote:
I have a hard time seeing the benefits in the Northstar line. Like other transportation projects, its highest recommendation seems to be that it's there. So we should forge ahead in order to get Federal money.... but why? So more people can move out of the Cities, taking their tax support with them? I'm not interested in supporting a megalopolis. I want efficient transit within the Cities. I don't want more and more people moving out, failing to support schools and public services, pouring back in every day to wear down our roads, use our water and sewer system, and demand services for which they don't pay. Call me a Blue State Curmudgeon.
Gail O'Hare St. Paul
T H E G O O D :
- NORTHSTAR MAY FINALLY BE FUNDED. The Republican-controlled Minnesota
House, spurred by electoral losses that seemed to be related to
underfunding public transit, approved funding for the Northstar
Commuter Rail Line. Northstar serves Minneapolis, but it paves the way
for other projects (see below). The House had not approved the
Northstar funding before, yet still only approved $10 million of the
required $37.5 million needed to leverage $132 million in federal funds
for the train line. It is thought that the full amount will be secured
in conferencce committee, with the Governor and Senate supporting the
full amount
-------------------------------------------------
JOIN the St. Paul Issues Forum TODAY:
http://www.e-democracy.org/stpaul/
-------------------------------------------------
POST MESSAGES HERE: [email protected]
To subscribe, modify subscription, or get your password - visit: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/stpaul
Archive Address: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/private/stpaul/
------------------------------
_____________________________________________ NEW ADDRESS FOR LIST: [email protected]
To subscribe, modify subscription, or get your password - visit: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/stpaul
Archive Address:
http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/private/stpaul/
_____________________________________________
For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html
For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract
End of Stpaul Digest, Vol 14, Issue 46 ************************************** ------------------------------------------------- JOIN the St. Paul Issues Forum TODAY: http://www.e-democracy.org/stpaul/ ------------------------------------------------- POST MESSAGES HERE: [email protected]
To subscribe, modify subscription, or get your password - visit: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/stpaul
Archive Address: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/private/stpaul/
------------------------------------------------- JOIN the St. Paul Issues Forum TODAY: http://www.e-democracy.org/stpaul/ ------------------------------------------------- POST MESSAGES HERE: [email protected]
To subscribe, modify subscription, or get your password - visit: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/stpaul
Archive Address: http://www.mnforum.org/mailman/private/stpaul/
