On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Michael Luscombe <[email protected]>wrote:
> > -- > > Yeah, you ask the plants. We'll wait for you to get back to us. Yes, > plants process C02, but it's an equation. You can't cut down the > Amazon and produce C02 willy-nilly without unbalancing that equation. > > You've combined several issues here into one. So if we like Johnny > Carson and don't agree with the auto bailout, we have to discredit > global warming? > > > 1. The Automotive Bailout. > > 1a) We're talking about North American companies that have regularly > closed plants in the US and Canada and moved those jobs to Mexico > because of the prohibitive cost of labour, while Japanese companies > have been opening plants in the US and Canada and making a decent > profit. This is hardly an industry that had the public's best > interest at heart. > > 1b) The writing was on the wall about consumer's desire for lower > emission vehicles, and GM, Ford and Chrysler have been unwilling or > unable to produce cars that people in this country actually want. I > really don't have a basis for linking some kind of conspiracy between > oil and car companies, so I'll put it down to old executives who > aren't very nimble thinkers. > > 1c) Of course, now they've completely f*cked up, they have no > profits to develop vehicles with the customers needs in mind. So do > we employ tough love, let a giant north american industry fail and > give all that business to Japanese carmakers? That's what I want to > say, but that doesn't sit well with me. > > You gave a ridiculous amount of money to a financial industry that > produces nothing worthwhile, and largely pocketed the money that may > have counted as "profit" in more sensible times, with almost no > strings attached. I say you have an opportunity here to exert some > real pressure on the auto industry to start hitting targets for low- > emission/no-emission vehicles like the EV-1 GM scrapped in > California. California was pressured to drop a law on emission caps > and targets for low emission vehicles. This bailout is an opportunity > to apply some real leverage to these companies. We'll help you out, > but you have to start making cars we want. Now. If it means your > profits are lower for the next few years, start getting used to mac > and cheese. > > > 2. The premise for the Iraq war. > > This whole "premise" bit is a nice way to gloss over the fact that > the "premise" for the Iraq war was a complete invention (lie) by the > US government. I'm not sure it's that hard to understand that support > for an unnecessary war dried up when it was revealed that there was > indeed a conspiracy to fake the entire threat. That threat was then > used to erode basic human rights by illegally wiretapping citizens, > opening black-site prisons, and flat out torture. Liars on this scale > usually get tossed in prison. > > This isn't a cute anecdote, this should have been bigger than > Watergate, Contra and 100 Clinton blow jobs put together. Thankfully, > they were able to precipitate a worse disaster to draw attention away > from them. > > > 3. Global Warming. > > 3a) Thankfully, 95% of the scientists in the world don't have to > convince every last crackpot that global warming is real. Having the > support of the president and the party in power should be enough. > > 3b) If your premise is that the entire thing is a hoax, what's wrong > with creating new jobs, and new markets for eco-friendly products? > Oil is a finite resource, and one controlled primarily by foreign > interests that gain far too much leverage on our economies. Swiftly > moving away from these conflicts of interest towards a far more > sustainable, responsible and independent future is a win-win-win > situation for the economy, security and the environment. > > 3c) Seriously, what's the downside? You're not a scientist, you're > just too set in your ways to side with hippies in any way, shape or > form. You let your financial institutions deceive and steal from you > (rich men in suits), you let your government invent a threat and > steal money, goodwill and young men and women from you (again, more > rich men in suits). Your willingness to listen to rich people tell > you what's good for you isn't doing you any favors. > > If you can't learn from your mistakes, then you're a fool. > too bad there isn't a "best of ot-stratalist" to send this to...if anyone was ever more eloquent with their perspectives and those ideas paralleled my own, i haven't met them, thanks. i do take one issue, if i heard right, this morning...GM does have capital but refuses to use it to save itself. and i do firmly believe it should be the big oil suits bailing them out, not us...that way we won't be paying thrice, etc.... i bet external oil profiteers are paying heavy prices to lobby against alternative fuel use vehicles...; ^) > > At 11:23 AM -0600 11/29/08, Chris Bischoff said: Just nod and smile, that's a smart pair you have there. Mugsy replies: why thanks, (blush). --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "StrataList-OT" group. 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