I agree with every thing Mike says. I am a contractor at a financial 
institution and to get Struts in here we had to go against the homegrown 
version and a team of IBMers pushing their JADE architecture. In the end 
Struts won. We also have two systems in production with another one being 
rewritten using Struts as we speak.

Jim


>From: "Michael Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: Question for using struts as our standard MVC framework
>Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:21:29 -0400
>
>Here's an argument, and have him email me if he has any questions...
>I was brought on to my current company as a J2EE Architect.
>It was basically one developer. He had a home brewed servlet controller
>layer. I recommended struts. He pushed back (that's natural, it's his 
>baby).
>But he is rational and I explained a few points to him;
>- The features of struts and how it did everything he did
>- It is much more feature rich. More here being the html libraries so you
>dont have to worry about session/request maintenance. That's big in my
>opinion.
>- It has a development community behind it meaning it will be as up to date
>as our needs as J2EE developer's see we need.
>- It is well tested. Much more so, I'm sure, than his. So not only is it
>more powerful and feature rich, all the functionality and features are more
>stable than what he has.
>- It is maintained by someone else leaving us the job of writing business
>code and not servlet frameworks (which are being written again and again 
>all
>over the world! ARRRGH! STOP IT!). This is a big one of the management 
>types
>when they realize it can save lots of design/development time because it's
>one less piece to worry about.
>- You have the source code so, at the very least, you can tweak it to fit
>any needs that may not be covered by it that may be in yours. (I HIGHLY
>doubt this would be the case).
>- I have 2 systems in production with it as we speak.
>- I'm here to help if you have any questions (You may have to just say this
>and then get your learn on, or post a question here...AFTER YOU'VE DONE 
>YOUR
>RESEARCH!)
>
>The fact that now he doesn't have to maintain his framework was a big
>selling point in addition to the others.
>
>If these don't work then tell him to go write a J2EE container as well.
>There are reasons people pay for software (and people get together and 
>write
>open source). There is a common need
>
>This worked here and we're using struts instead of the homebrewed job.
>Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Galbreath, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "'Struts Users Mailing List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 6:33 PM
>Subject: RE: Question for using struts as our standard MVC framework
>
>
> > Ignorant Luddites!
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Khan, Manuchehar A (ACF) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 6:32 PM
> > To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> > Subject: RE: Question for using struts as our standard MVC framework
> >
> >
> > Thanks for input...You are right...Politics play more role here than
> > technology and innovation.
> > I gave 2 hr presentation on pros and cons of framework developed by one
> > person as compare to people involved behind struts.   Opposition was
>struts
> > is not tested or proven, what if jakarta abandon struts project and we
>will
> > become dependent on 3rd party tool.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 10:57 AM
> > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: Question for using struts as our standard MVC framework
> >
> >
> > Sounds like a political argument more than anything else.
> >
> > I could list 100 reasons to choose Struts, but it wouldn't change the 
>mind
> > of someone who 'wants' to use what they have built....especially if they
> > have a long standing history as defending champion in the Vi(m)  vs.
> > (X)Emacs debate.
> >
> > I wish you luck in your endeavor.
> >
> >
> >
> > James Mitchell
> > Software Engineer\Struts Evangelist
> > Struts-Atlanta, the "Open Minded Developer Network"
> > http://www.open-tools.org/struts-atlanta
> >
> > P.S. Tell them to stop being so ignorant and pickup FUC#ING book.
> > Hmmm....like the STRUTS book by Chuck Cavaness ;)
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Khan, Manuchehar A (ACF) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 10:37 AM
> > > To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
> > > Subject: Question for using struts as our standard MVC framework
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello Folks. I work for Govt and we have major policy meeting for 
>using
> > > struts as our stantard framework.
> > > One developer in our team took the Sun pet store example and created a
> > > framework that is basically a router/controller with xml
> > > configuration files
> > > to define handlers and views. And that controller works fine..
> > > He claims that strut has not followed sun standards and guidelines and
> > > struts is not reliable. It can only support maximum 100 users and
> > > next year
> > > struts team is coming up with new version based in JSTL and will trash
>all
> > > releases.
> > > I need some inputs from people here to make solid arguments for
> > > changing to
> > > struts.
> > > Thanks...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 10:34 AM
> > > To: Struts Users Mailing List; Dariusz Wojtas
> > > Subject: RE: JDO example - rozpakowywac Commanderem
> > >
> > >
> > > Was there a question in there I missed?
> > >
> > > James Mitchell
> > > Software Engineer\Struts Evangelist
> > > Struts-Atlanta, the "Open Minded Developer Network"
> > > http://www.open-tools.org/struts-atlanta
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Dariusz Wojtas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 3:19 AM
> > > > To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > > > Subject: JDO example - rozpakowywac Commanderem
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Wednesday, September 11, 2002, 6:55:25 AM, you wrote:
> > > > JM> Sorry for the delay.  I've decided to post this on our website.
> > > >
> > > > JM> Please feel free to download and try it out.
> > > >
> > > > JM>
> > > http://www.open-tools.org/struts-atlanta/downloads/DBMessageResources
> > > >
> > > > JM> If for some reason the site goes down, just send me an email
> > > > and I'll get it
> > > > JM> to you.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > JM> James Mitchell
> > > > JM> Software Engineer\Struts Evangelist
> > > > JM> Struts-Atlanta, the "Open Minded Developer Network"
> > > > JM> http://www.open-tools.org/struts-atlanta
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > >> From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > >> Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 3:06 PM
> > > > >> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> > > > >> Subject: [Announce] [New Extension]
> > > > ApplicationResources.properties from
> > > > >> Database
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> For anyone interested, I have finished implementing
> > > DBMessageResources
> > > > >> which allows you to keep the key-value pairs (from your
> > > > >> ApplicationResources.properties) in a single database table.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> You can load your property files into a table (generic schema
> > > > is provided)
> > > > >> and with this extension, by only modifying <message-resources> in
>the
> > > > >> struts-config.xml your application will run WITHOUT ANY code
> > > > changes. (See
> > > > >> the readme.txt file included)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> This extension uses OJB (http://jakarta.apache.org/ojb) O/R
> > > mapping for
> > > > >> database configuration and connection pool management.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I have included a modified version of the (1.1b2) struts-example 
>to
> > > > >> demonstrate.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I have tested this with Struts 1.1b2, and I'm sure it will
> > > > work with 1.1b1
> > > > >> (If anyone requires a 1.0.x compatible, I can look at that also)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I will get this project available as soon as I work through some
> > > > >> cvs issues
> > > > >> on sf.net:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> If anyone is REALLY itching to get their hands on it sooner,
> > > send me a
> > > > >> email.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> For those who were waiting, thanks for your patience.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> James Mitchell
> > > > >> Software Engineer\Struts Evangelist
> > > > >> Struts-Atlanta, the "Open Minded Developer Network"
> > > > >> http://www.open-tools.org/struts-atlanta
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > > >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > >> For additional commands, e-mail:
> > > > >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > JM> --
> > > > JM> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > JM> For additional commands, e-mail:
> > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Best regards,
> > >  Dariusz Wojtas                 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
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> > >
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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> >
>
>--
>To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
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>




Jim Young
Northern Objects Inc.
905 781-7019


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