David
From: "Hohlen, John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: Struts-el NOT working with Struts 1.1 RC1 Release Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 22:40:41 -0600
Craig,
I hear what you're saying. At times, I feel like we're dealing with a
two-edge sword. I wish our teams could do more work with nightly builds. One
of the battles I constantly face with our management is their reluctancy to
even allow us to work with "beta" releases (or lesser) in our development
environment. Their fear is, not knowing when an official release will
occur, that beta open-source software will end up in production. But my
argument is, hey if we've successfully completed all levels of testing
(unit, integration, q/a, etc.), have the corresponding source code, know
what the open bugs/issues/limitations are, what's the worse that can happen?
We discover a bug that we have to fix (and possibly relay back to the
open-source development team). How is this any different that with the code
we develop in-house? I guarantee you we have in-house software running in
production that should be labeled "beta" (or less), but isn't because of a
schedule that had to be met. It's too bad the label "beta" has to be used,
it has such a negative connotation. I did read on the mailing lists a while
back that Lands End was using a beta 1 version of Struts 1.1 in production.
I think that says something in it's own right. I'm sure there are others
doing the same.
There is an "open-source" mindset that I'm trying to slowly change in
our company. I've tried to convince our management that beta "open-source"
is different than beta "commercial". Open-source projects don't have
schedule deadlines that will affect the quarterly financial results. Hence,
they move a slower and strive for 100% perfection. If we do a thorough job of testing, with a high-level of confidence, it might be possible to use "beta" software in production (in some instances). One issue we do have with Struts, however, is the many other Jakarta Commons libraries that it depends upon. Since we're using other libraries that also uses the Jakarta-Commons libraries, we do have compatability concerns. For the beta releases of Struts, many of the Jakarta-Comons libraries used were simply nighty build versions. Hence, it's a little trickier trying to use a "unofficially" released version of Struts vs. some project that has very little, or no dependency on other libraries. Additional thoughts on this are greatly appreciated,
Thanks, JOHN
-----Original Message----- From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Fri 2/28/2003 9:59 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Cc: Subject: RE: Struts-el NOT working with Struts 1.1 RC1 Release
On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Hohlen, John wrote:
> Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 19:54:45 -0600
> From: "Hohlen, John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: Struts-el NOT working with Struts 1.1 RC1 Release
>
> David Karr said he fixed this problem in last night's Struts-EL build.
This
> means in order to pick up the fix, you have to migrate from the RC1
version
> of Struts to a nightly build version (due to other changes made to the
> regular Struts tags since the RC1 release -- otherwise you'll have
> incompatability issues -- I think). Many projects are reluctant to use
> nightly builds (for obvious reasons). Therefore, this hurts the overall
> likelihood of other projects incorporating Struts-EL. I would think that
> the Struts-EL team would want to provide a version of their project that's
> compatible with RC1. This will allow for wider user base which would be > good for the overall project. Doesn't this make sense or am I missing > something? >
The other side of that coin is also important -- if nobody tests the nightly builds, then we developers never find out about the bugs until after a release build is published, which harms the reputation for quality that we would all prefer.
I get somewhat depressed about the "for obvious reasons" reason that people give for not at least *trying* your app against the nightly builds. After all, the day that Struts 1.1 final is released, guess what -- it will have exactly the same classes as that night's nightly build :-). There is nothing magical about the label "final release" that makes it any better (or worse) other than marginally more testing.
Going into production is a different story -- but the harsh reality is the only reason RC1 was called RC1 instead of beta 4 was to get at least a *few* more people to test it. Fortunately for the quality of the final release, that goal was achieved. Unfortunately, many of the bugs could have been found and fixed quite a while ago, with more testing.
> Thanks, > > JOHN
Craig
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