> On 9 Oct 2021, at 14:17, Robert Helling <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Hi Attila,
> 
> just quickly, as, surprise surprise, today I managed to get some diving done 
> after more than a year!

Hope you had a great dive!

>> On 8. Oct 2021, at 20:49, Attilla de Groot via subsurface 
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> - When planning multiple dives, it is common to make variations (e.g 3min 
>> longer, 3min deeper) to determine gas usage. When planning them and moving 
>> around with dates, I sometimes get: " Subsurface (5.0.2.0) dive plan 
>> (overlapping dives detected)” instead of the Runtable. While that might be 
>> true, not really useful in planning mode. Adding these types of variations 
>> would be a nice feature to have in a single dive-plan btw.
> 
> You should plan these variations with the same start time. Then Subsurface 
> understands they are different versions of the same dive. This is most easily 
> achieved by planing the basic version of the dive and then save it to the 
> dive log. Then you can reopen it via „Edit dive in planner“ from the log 
> menu. There you have a „Save new“ button which does exactly what you want.

That is what I have been doing. Just creating multiple ones for each variation 
I would like to see.

> Actually, everybody has different opinions what kinds of variations (mainly 
> depth and time) they want to plan. To come up with a user interface to handle 
> all those  preferences would be almost impossible in a way that does not add 
> a million additional options to the already quite baroque user interface for 
> the planner. So we went with a minimalistic but very effective approach „plan 
> variations (you need to check a box to turn those on). It outputs (in the 
> planner notes) information like
> 
> Runtime: 83min, Stop times: + 2:45 /m + 5:57 /min
> 
> This means that if you change your depth (that of the last segment manually 
> entered) you would have to add/subtract 2min 45sec per meter deeper/shallower 
>  to the total deco time (usually proportionally to the already existent stop 
> times). Similarly, you need to add/subtract  5min 57sec per minute that you 
> extend/shorten your time at your last depth before ascending (in addition to 
> the minute you stay longer/shorter).
> 
> This kind of information is usually sufficient to allow for some flexibility 
> in your dive plan.

It is, I think valid for most dive planning. My main point however was the 
“overlapping dives detected” message I get when having multiple dive plans. I 
understand that everyone has their own opinions and it would be hard to satisfy 
all of them _and_ keep a lean interface at the same time. It was just a 
suggestion for a “nice to have”.

> 
>> - When planning a dive where you have a travel gas, you have to put that to 
>> “not-used” otherwise it will get automatically selected as deco gas (e.g 
>> when going down with EAN32). This is not desired from an ICD perspective.
> 
> I don’t know what an „ICD perspective is“. But making a gas „not used“ means 
> exactly that the planner will not switch to it. You can still use it in the 
> manually entered part of the dive.

When you dive with a Tri-mix with high helium, you typically don’t want to 
switch to something that has > 50% difference in nitrogen since that could 
cause ICD (isobaric counter diffusion). Selecting the travel gas as “not used” 
and manually using it is what I did now, but preventing something like this to 
be automatically generated would be of added value (although someone doing such 
dives should know better).


>> - There is a “Best MIX END” field, but it is unclear to me what it’s purpose 
>> is. What I do would like to know is what the END/EAD is for a tri-mix gas 
>> that I enter. If something like that could be added to the columns when a 
>> Tri-mix gas is used, that would be use-ful.
> 
> END and EAD are depth dependent (do not only depend on the gas). They are 
> shown in the info box when you move the mouse over the profile.

I missed the box for it on the left. That shows exactly what I need. Thanks. :-)

> By entering a * in the column for MOD and MND for a gas makes the planner 
> chose the best mix for the dive planned (with respect to O2 and He fraction). 
> The "Best MIX END“ means that it choses the He component such that the gas is 
> as narcotic at the deepest point as air at the "Best MIX END“ depth. Most 
> people set it to 30m.

That is very useful. Didn’t know about that!

> 
>> - In planning I would like to know what my PPo2 is at a given depth of the 
>> dive. Is this possible?
> 
> Activate the O2 icon left of the profile and it is shown in the info box.

Same as above, I didn’t press the button ...

> 
>> - When using a travel gas, the first stop would probably be around 30-40 
>> meters. Then the “drop to first depth” isn’t honored anymore for the next 
>> depth. Perhaps this thould be taken into account.
> 
> Again, make this such that it suits everybody will turn into a user interface 
> nightmare. The „drop to first depth“ is a crutch anyway, all following 
> waypoints have to be entered manually. Note that you have many options to do 
> that: Enter values in the table of waypoints, double click in the profile, 
> select a waypoint and use the cursor keys to move it around.

Fair enough. I thought it would be worth investigating an option where you 
could set a gas to “travel gas” and it would show you the depth for the change 
based on the END.

> 
>> 
>> In general though, the planning mode is quite good. We compared my result 
>> with the tools the instructor used and were almost identical (mostly 
>> rounding differences I guess). I hope that a planner can be implemented on 
>> the mobile version as well sometime, because it seems that there isn’t a 
>> nice one available for Android.
> 
> Currently there is nobody with enough time and understanding of the mobile UI 
> to code it. But contributions are of course always more than welcome.
> 
> Actually, the first big obstacle is to design a user interface that is 
> sufficiently expressive but lives the the confines of the mobile device (no 
> mouse, very limited screen estate in particular compared to the typical 
> finger size). Also here: Contributions welcome!

Unfortunately that is not my specialty. I hope someone comes around that does 
have the knowledge. Either way, in general I love the planner functionality.


— Attilla


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