Re: On northern vs. southern dials

[Willy Leenders]

Hello John; At the website http://www2.iap.fr/saf/csmp/arr8n/centrea84.html you can find a text and photographes that gives perhaps the answer to your question. I translate briefly in bad English the French text. En 1913, l'astronome Camille Flammarion, fondateur de la Société Astronomique de France, proposait à la Ville de Paris de tracer sur la place de la Concorde les lignes du "plus vaste cadran solaire du monde". La guerre de 1914 n'a pas permis de réaliser ce rêve The astronome Camille Flammarion proposed in 1913 a sundial on the  Place de la Concorde using the shadow of the obelsik (one of the two obelisks at the temple of Luxor built by Ramses II 1250 B.C.). The 1914-1918 war prevented the realisation. En 1938, Daniel Roguet, architecte DPLG, architecte de l'Observatoire de Juvisy, membre du Conseil de la S.A.F, avec la collaboration des Ingénieurs et Géomètres de la Ville de Paris et du Service Géographique de l'Armée, reprend le projet de Flammarion. The project of Flammarion was retaked by the architect Daniel Roquet in 1938 in collaboration with a team of engeneers and surveyors of the city of Paris and the geographic services of the army. Les travaux sont commencés au printemps 1939, mais interrompus par la guerre de 1939-1940. The execution of the project began in 1939 but was interrupted by the 1939 -1945 war. Les traces du cadran, commencé en 1938, sont visibles : creusées dans le sol de la chaussée qui entoure le parterre au Sud de l'obélisque. 5 lignes horaires devaient aboutir à des plots en bronze portant les indications des heures et des saisons. The traces of this sundial are still visible: 5 hour lines with bronze marks provided with hour and season indications (perhaps the humps you have seen). Un nouveau projet de Philippe de la Cotardière et de Denis Savoie, Président actuel de la Commission des Cadrans Solaires de S.A.F. L'inauguration du cadran solaire a eu lieu le 21 juin 1999 A new poject of Philippe de la Cotardière and Denis Savoie is executed and inaugurated the 21th of june 1999. Lorsque la pointe de l'ombre passe sur une ligne horaire, matérialisée sur le sol, il suffit de lire l'heure indiquée à l'extrémité de la ligne. The sundial is a nodal sundial. The end of the shadow of the obelisk indicates on a line placed in the pavement the hour indicated at the end of the line. ***** In august 2003 I saw the sundial. On the meridian passing through the footh of the obelisk (the XII hour line) there is on a disc the  inscription "AU LEVANT DE THEBES SURGIT A PARIS LE NORD". I translate this as "AT THE EAST OF THEBES THE NORD RISES IN PARIS". Nobody, nor Denis Savoie, can explain this sentence. I can send a jpeg-picture of this disc with inscription if desired.   Willy Leenders Hasselt, Flanders in Belgium 50.9 N 5.4 E   John Carmichael wrote: Hello Jean-Paul When I went to Paris after the Oxford conference, we were driving around the Place de la Concord in a taxi and I noticed several little (about 10 -15cm) round brass mounded humps inlaid in the asphalt.  We were going to fast to see if there was anything written on them.  I immediately guessed that they might be hour or date markers for the sundial.  Has anybody else seen these mysterious little brass markers there? John ----- Original Message ----- From:Jean-Paul Cornec To: Sundial, Mailinglist Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 5:41 AM Subject: Re: On northern vs. southern dials  Anselmo The sundial on the Place de la Concorde in Paris is a classical horizontal sundial with the "Obelisque" as a vertical gnomon. Lines are now more or less erased due a lack of maintenance. There was a scheme with a short explanation in the june 1999 issue of "L'Astronomie". I can scan it and send it to you or to any member of the list; just send me a mail. Regards Jean-Paul Cornec (...)   Now that I remember, a kind of touristical question: in this month's issue of the spanish version of Scientific American there is an articleby D. Savoie about sundials an in it he says that in the Place de la Concorde in Paris it was drawn a sundial (an Oughtred sundialI suppose) based on the obelisk erected there. Does anybody know if the lines are still drawn or were they erased?