Hi all, With all respect to those who have commented on the subject of the 1939 inscription in the Place de la Concorde, Paris I'm not sure if this contribution will add to the debate on the inscription or not but I have been doing a little, very superficial, research on the subject and have come up with a few interesting facts.
mainly they are as follows: The word 'levant' in french can also mean 'arising' or 'rising' i.e. levant(e) adjectif soleil levant - rising sun. So the first part of the phrase could be 'at the rising (or raising) of Thebes, rather than 'at the East of Thebes' and also allude to the rising sun. The Obelisk which stands at the centre of La Place which is also the Gnomon of the Sundial was originally at the temples of Amun which is in Karnak on the site of the ancient city of Thebes, so could this be the 'rising of Thebes'? The second part of the inscription could be translated as 'The rising of Paris of the North' or ' .....to the North' I believe, with my limited knowledge of French. So the allusion could be to the relationship between Thebes as an ancient city and it's presence in Paris in the form of the Obelisk symbolising the rising of two great cities rather than a geograhical relationship. To quote from a Paris guide the name of the Place has changed many times over the years finally becoming La Place de la Concorde 'to symbolize the end of a troubled era and the hope of a better future.' I.e. 'The rising of Paris' perrhaps? So could this inscription have a double meaning referring both to the obelisk as a Cadrans solaire (sundial) but also as a symbol of the rising of Paris as a power? (Perhaps with an eye on what was happening in Nazi Germany at the time). I look forward to others comments on my humble theories. Quoting "Frans W. Maes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Hi John & all, > > The nail heads you saw are not from the reconstruction of the Paris meridian > by the Dutch artist Jan Dibbets, as this runs through the Observatory of > Paris and passes through the Louvre Museum, a kilometer or so east of Place > de la Concorde. See > http://www.amb-pays-bas.fr/fr/ambassade/pcz/arago.htm > for info on that captivating project (in French). > > Instead, the nails are from the millennium sundial, inaugurated in 1999. I > have put some pictures at www.fransmaes.nl/concorde/concorde.htm to > illustrate Willy Leenders' posting (5 pictures, some 280 KB in total). > > Best regards, > Frans W. Maes > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Willy Leenders" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "John Carmichael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 12:58 AM > Subject: Re: On northern vs. southern dials > > > Hello John; > > At the website > http://www2.iap.fr/saf/csmp/arr8n/centrea84.html > you can find a text and photographes that gives perhaps the answer to > your question. > > I translate briefly in bad English the French text. > > En 1913, l'astronome Camille Flammarion, fondateur de la Société > Astronomique de France, proposait à la Ville de Paris de tracer sur la > place de la Concorde les lignes du "plus vaste cadran solaire du monde". > La guerre de 1914 n'a pas permis de réaliser ce rêve > > The astronome Camille Flammarion proposed in 1913 a sundial on the > Place de la Concorde using the shadow of the obelsik (one of the two > obelisks at the temple of Luxor built by Ramses II 1250 B.C.). > The 1914-1918 war prevented the realisation. > > En 1938, Daniel Roguet, architecte DPLG, architecte de l'Observatoire de > Juvisy, membre du Conseil de la S.A.F, avec la collaboration des > Ingénieurs et Géomètres de la Ville de Paris et du Service Géographique > de l'Armée, reprend le projet de Flammarion. > > The project of Flammarion was retaked by the architect Daniel Roquet in > 1938 in collaboration with a team of engeneers and surveyors of the city > of Paris and the geographic services of the army. > > Les travaux sont commencés au printemps 1939, mais interrompus par la > guerre de 1939-1940. > > The execution of the project began in 1939 but was interrupted by the > 1939 -1945 war. > > Les traces du cadran, commencé en 1938, sont visibles : creusées dans le > sol de la chaussée qui entoure le parterre au Sud de l'obélisque. 5 > lignes horaires devaient aboutir à des plots en bronze portant les > indications des heures et des saisons. > > The traces of this sundial are still visible: 5 hour lines with bronze > marks provided with hour and season indications (perhaps the humps you > have seen). > > Un nouveau projet de Philippe de la Cotardière et de Denis Savoie, > Président actuel de la Commission des Cadrans Solaires de S.A.F. > > L'inauguration du cadran solaire a eu lieu le 21 juin 1999 > > A new poject of Philippe de la Cotardière and Denis Savoie is executed > and inaugurated the 21th of june 1999. > > Lorsque la pointe de l'ombre passe sur une ligne horaire, matérialisée > sur le sol, il suffit de lire l'heure indiquée à l'extrémité de la > ligne. > > The sundial is a nodal sundial. The end of the shadow of the obelisk > indicates on a line placed in the pavement the hour indicated at the end > of the line. > > ***** > > In august 2003 I saw the sundial. > On the meridian passing through the footh of the obelisk (the XII hour > line) there is on a disc the inscription "AU LEVANT DE THEBES SURGIT A > PARIS LE NORD". > > I translate this as "AT THE EAST OF THEBES THE NORD RISES IN PARIS". > > Nobody, nor Denis Savoie, can explain this sentence. > > I can send a jpeg-picture of this disc with inscription if desired. > > > Willy Leenders > Hasselt, Flanders in Belgium > > 50.9 N 5.4 E > > > John Carmichael wrote: > > > Hello Jean-Paul When I went to Paris after the Oxford conference, we > > were driving around the Place de la Concord in a taxi and I noticed > > several little (about 10 -15cm) round brass mounded humps inlaid in > > the asphalt. We were going to fast to see if there was anything > > written on them. I immediately guessed that they might be hour or > > date markers for the sundial. Has anybody else seen these mysterious > > little brass markers there? John > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From:Jean-Paul Cornec > > To: Sundial, Mailinglist > > Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 5:41 AM > > Subject: Re: On northern vs. southern dials > > Anselmo The sundial on the Place de la Concorde in Paris is > > a classical horizontal sundial with the "Obelisque" as a > > vertical gnomon. Lines are now more or less erased due a > > lack of maintenance. There was a scheme with a short > > explanation in the june 1999 issue of "L'Astronomie". I can > > scan it and send it to you or to any member of the list; > > just send me a mail. Regards Jean-Paul Cornec > > > > (...) Now that I remember, a kind of touristical > > question: in this month's issue of the spanish > > version of Scientific American there is an > > articleby D. Savoie about sundials an in it he > > says that in the Place de la Concorde in Paris it > > was drawn a sundial (an Oughtred sundialI suppose) > > based on the obelisk erected there. Does anybody > > know if the lines are still drawn or were they > > erased? > > > > - > ----------------------------------------------- This mail sent through http://webmail.zoom.co.uk -
