l...@hushmail.com пишет:
> Hello. I hope this is OK. It’s quite long.
> I wonder if anyone can help with this/these question/s-comment/s in 
> the form of clarification. I hope it doesn’t seem too petty but I 
> wonder if others go through the same confusion as I.
> On this page: one can go to: “Load 
> Official Plugin”
> The viewer can see, as did I, that “Fetch over Freenet is checked 
> AND that it says,
> “This is untraceable, safe….”   NOW, untraceable means anonymous.
> The other choice available is to, “Fetch over the web from 
> Freenet’s central servers…and is “TRACEABLE”, meaning NOT 
> (Freenet isn’t safe?)

This point has already been answered, but i feel that there is a point that can 
be made here by answering it again.

When you fetch something from the regular internet, the request is easily 
traceable back to you. The warning that you see tells you that for that reason. 
The question is how did you get Freenet to run? If you have downloaded the 
installer from the official freenet site, or even if you have just visited the 
site without the use of Tor, somebody can potentially see that. It's the same 
with plug-ins.

It would be interesting if Freenet could check the proxy setting of the system 
and use that when downloading plugins. Thus if you set up your entire system to 
use Tor (for example) then Freenet would see that and pass the request for the 
download through it. I do see a few problems with it right away... the biggest 
being (as Evan Daniel pointed out) the level of understanding, an average user 
does not understand the difference between installing a Tor-Button plugin for 
Firefox and setting up Tor as the proxy for all communication that comes out 
from the computer. Also Freenet would be dependent on the external thing for 
anonymity, which isn't great.

Anyhow, back to my original point. When you download plugin (or anything else 
Freenet-related) from the Web, you identify yourself as a user of Freenet. That 
(in and of itself) does not tell anybody exactly what you say on Freenet 
(although may identify how you say that... downloading Freemail says that you 
will be sending Freemail messages, downloading Frost says you will be a frost 
user, etc.)

> On this page: FREEMAIL-SETUP
> GQkjE7NY4,EtUH5b9gGpp8JiY-Bm-Y9kHX1q-yDjD-
> 9oRzXn21O9k,AQACAAE/freemail/4/setup/index.html
> It clearly directs one method of using the same plugin page as my 
> beginning comment above (Load Official Plugin), with the “only” 
> comment for that choice being that it is NOT ANONYMOUS!
> So, is one correct to assume that the first directive is false, 
> misleading and/or has been tampered with (edited) by someone with 
> bad intent? Or is it the second one?
> One point I am trying to make here is that this can cause some 
> immediate doubt and confusion in someone new to Freenet. I am 
> concerned because the world needs Freenet and Tor more than they 
> might consciously know. I recently saw figures about the estimated 
> number of users for both, and the numbers were very small. They are 
> small enough that large arrays of computers, set around the world 
> and networked, are capable of watching ALL nodes and gathering the 
> data to be analyzed.
> Look at Tor. On the Network Map (of the world), there are nodes 
> running in sequential order, and all these are located in the same 
> place – near the CIA in the US.
> Some of these sequential orders are showing up in other locations 
> around the Tor network.
> I have found Freenet to be so frustrating and confusing to set up 
> and use, that as I search the web for information that is clear and 
> helpful, I keep coming across more comments from Users who are 
> quitting the program. Now it does make sense to me, that with 
> anonymity programs, the more using them, the better and more safely 
> anonymous it is for all. But, it seems the numbers are dwindling. I 
> don’t know.
> I have used Tor for about 4 years. I recently went to its Hidden 
> Wiki and about one half of all its services were gone! So, I 
> wonder, as do others, is Tor is dying out?
> I really don’t want to see that for Tor or Freenet.
> If one goes to: first, before 
> finding the .jar or .zip download page (supposedly both are 
> anonymous but of course, IT DOESN’T SAY, then they might make a 
> very bad choice solely from being confused by the directions.
> So, while this might seem very petty and/or trivial to (I don’t 
> know-most who might read this), it is very important to write 
> directions for the reader, not the writer!
> In Tor, the Hidden Services may be tampered with, changed, 
> purposely to be misleading and dangerous, by those who want to 
> destroy anonymity and our right to it. They use anonymity to try 
> and destroy anonymity, except for them, of course.
> Is this also possible with the Freenet pages of “howto’s?” Can they 
> be edited so that one is not aware of what is true, accurate and 
> good for the User?
> Anyway, I am once more trying to set up Freenet, Freemail and Frost 
> and am close to quitting. If I were more knowledgeable, I would 
> write “howto’s” but I am not. It seems all I am is frustrated.
> One last thing, at Freemail-Setup, it tells me to download 
> Freemail. The next bit of ‘howto’ is setting it up for “command 
> line version setup”.
> I’m not doing that. 
> I don’t know the pros and cons of command line Freemail. At the end 
> of that instruction it says, “Now you have Freemail proxy 
> running….”
> I DO? How? I didn’t do that so what the fuck happened? Does the 
> download set it up or does it have to be set up after it’s 
> downloaded? The latter makes sense to me but, it is now telling me 
> I already have it running without doing anything. So, why the 
> instructions? I mean, C’mon! I have to go by what the writer 
> writes, right?
> Since it tells me I have it up and running, where is it? I can’t 
> find it. These instructions are telling me to insert the long 
> Freemail address I was given.
> I was given? When? Where? I haven’t done anything yet but the 
> directions jump from something I don’t want to do and didn’t do, 
> to, “I’m up and running!”
> This is a joke right? It’s only for those who are IT smart, meaning 
> very few, and anonymity will be shot on site.
> Just before it gets to THUNDERBIRD, it tells me, “Remember that the 
> Freemail.jar program needs to be running whilst you are reading and 
> sending emails. Sooooo, where is it? There is no window to put in 
> any information.
> Perhaps if I could get some help, yeah, I might be able to help 
> others.
> Sorry for the rant but writing it out here seems to be (I hope, 
> even though I don’t believe in hope), it will be read with 
> understanding and with help coming as a result.)
> By the way, at the Plugins of Node...yadayadayada, what does the 
> word “Visit” mean? Is that some tech-term for “download”, “install” 
> or what?
> I mean it couldn’t mean going to my email because it hasn’t been 
> set up yet!
> Best regards to all and to all a good site:)
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