well, i'm free right now, although at a clients by myself. What is your number? Bob
2009/10/11 <support-requ...@freenetproject.org> > Send Support mailing list submissions to > support@freenetproject.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > support-requ...@freenetproject.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > support-ow...@freenetproject.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Support digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: No subject (Dsoslglece) > 2. Re: No subject (Dsoslglece) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 10:31:49 +0200 > From: Dsoslglece <dsoslgl...@orange.fr> > Subject: Re: [freenet-support] No subject > To: support@freenetproject.org > Message-ID: <4ad197f5.20...@orange.fr> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > l...@hushmail.com a ?crit : > > The viewer can see, as did I, that ?Fetch over Freenet is checked > > AND that it says, > > ?This is untraceable, safe?.? NOW, untraceable means anonymous. > > The other choice available is to, ?Fetch over the web from > > Freenet?s central servers?and is ?TRACEABLE?, meaning NOT > > ANONYMOUS! > The meaning is : > > ?Fetch over Freenet, this is untraceable, safe?.: > > To download the plugin, you use freenet (of course this is safe). > > ?Fetch over the web from > Freenet?s central servers?and is ?TRACEABLE" > > > To download the plugin, you go out of freenet and from the web, in the > big dark forest, using your browser and all nude, you go to freenet's > central servers. > and this obviously is traceable and not safe, since you are not using > freenet anymore... (of course, doing this, you still can use Tor, or > jap for some protection) > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/support/attachments/20091011/bf586d37/attachment.htm > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 11:08:43 +0200 > From: Dsoslglece <dsoslgl...@orange.fr> > Subject: Re: [freenet-support] No subject > To: ev...@pobox.com, support@freenetproject.org > Message-ID: <4ad1a09b.3070...@orange.fr> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Evan Daniel a ?crit : > > On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 11:13 PM, <l...@hushmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Hello. I hope this is OK. It?s quite long. > >> > >> I wonder if anyone can help with this/these question/s-comment/s in > >> the form of clarification. I hope it doesn?t seem too petty but I > >> wonder if others go through the same confusion as I. > >> > >> On this page: http://127.0.0.1:8888/plugins/ one can go to: ?Load > >> Official Plugin? > >> The viewer can see, as did I, that ?Fetch over Freenet is checked > >> AND that it says, > >> ?This is untraceable, safe?.? NOW, untraceable means anonymous. > >> The other choice available is to, ?Fetch over the web from > >> Freenet?s central servers?and is ?TRACEABLE?, meaning NOT > >> ANONYMOUS! > >> > >> (Freenet isn?t safe?) > >> > >> On this page: FREEMAIL-SETUP > >> http://127.0.0.1:8888/freenet:u...@xog49gnltumtjjzj0fvzugdpo4hjusy2us > >> GQkjE7NY4,EtUH5b9gGpp8JiY-Bm-Y9kHX1q-yDjD- > >> 9oRzXn21O9k,AQACAAE/freemail/4/setup/index.html > >> > >> It clearly directs one method of using the same plugin page as my > >> beginning comment above (Load Official Plugin), with the ?only? > >> comment for that choice being that it is NOT ANONYMOUS! > >> > >> So, is one correct to assume that the first directive is false, > >> misleading and/or has been tampered with (edited) by someone with > >> bad intent? Or is it the second one? > >> > >> One point I am trying to make here is that this can cause some > >> immediate doubt and confusion in someone new to Freenet. I am > >> concerned because the world needs Freenet and Tor more than they > >> might consciously know. I recently saw figures about the estimated > >> number of users for both, and the numbers were very small. They are > >> small enough that large arrays of computers, set around the world > >> and networked, are capable of watching ALL nodes and gathering the > >> data to be analyzed. > >> > >> Look at Tor. On the Network Map (of the world), there are nodes > >> running in sequential order, and all these are located in the same > >> place ? near the CIA in the US. > >> Some of these sequential orders are showing up in other locations > >> around the Tor network. > >> > >> I have found Freenet to be so frustrating and confusing to set up > >> and use, that as I search the web for information that is clear and > >> helpful, I keep coming across more comments from Users who are > >> quitting the program. Now it does make sense to me, that with > >> anonymity programs, the more using them, the better and more safely > >> anonymous it is for all. But, it seems the numbers are dwindling. I > >> don?t know. > >> > >> I have used Tor for about 4 years. I recently went to its Hidden > >> Wiki and about one half of all its services were gone! So, I > >> wonder, as do others, is Tor is dying out? > >> > >> I really don?t want to see that for Tor or Freenet. > >> > >> If one goes to: http://127.0.0.1:8888/plugins/ first, before > >> finding the .jar or .zip download page (supposedly both are > >> anonymous but of course, IT DOESN?T SAY, then they might make a > >> very bad choice solely from being confused by the directions. > >> > >> So, while this might seem very petty and/or trivial to (I don?t > >> know-most who might read this), it is very important to write > >> directions for the reader, not the writer! > >> > >> In Tor, the Hidden Services may be tampered with, changed, > >> purposely to be misleading and dangerous, by those who want to > >> destroy anonymity and our right to it. They use anonymity to try > >> and destroy anonymity, except for them, of course. > >> > >> Is this also possible with the Freenet pages of ?howto?s?? Can they > >> be edited so that one is not aware of what is true, accurate and > >> good for the User? > >> > >> Anyway, I am once more trying to set up Freenet, Freemail and Frost > >> and am close to quitting. If I were more knowledgeable, I would > >> write ?howto?s? but I am not. It seems all I am is frustrated. > >> > >> One last thing, at Freemail-Setup, it tells me to download > >> Freemail. The next bit of ?howto? is setting it up for ?command > >> line version setup?. > >> > >> I?m not doing that. > >> > >> I don?t know the pros and cons of command line Freemail. At the end > >> of that instruction it says, ?Now you have Freemail proxy > >> running?.? > >> I DO? How? I didn?t do that so what the fuck happened? Does the > >> download set it up or does it have to be set up after it?s > >> downloaded? The latter makes sense to me but, it is now telling me > >> I already have it running without doing anything. So, why the > >> instructions? I mean, C?mon! I have to go by what the writer > >> writes, right? > >> > >> Since it tells me I have it up and running, where is it? I can?t > >> find it. These instructions are telling me to insert the long > >> Freemail address I was given. > >> I was given? When? Where? I haven?t done anything yet but the > >> directions jump from something I don?t want to do and didn?t do, > >> to, ?I?m up and running!? > >> > >> This is a joke right? It?s only for those who are IT smart, meaning > >> very few, and anonymity will be shot on site. > >> > >> Just before it gets to THUNDERBIRD, it tells me, ?Remember that the > >> Freemail.jar program needs to be running whilst you are reading and > >> sending emails. Sooooo, where is it? There is no window to put in > >> any information. > >> > >> Perhaps if I could get some help, yeah, I might be able to help > >> others. > >> > >> Sorry for the rant but writing it out here seems to be (I hope, > >> even though I don?t believe in hope), it will be read with > >> understanding and with help coming as a result.) > >> > >> By the way, at the Plugins of Node...yadayadayada, what does the > >> word ?Visit? mean? Is that some tech-term for ?download?, ?install? > >> or what? > >> I mean it couldn?t mean going to my email because it hasn?t been > >> set up yet! > >> > >> > >> Best regards to all and to all a good site:) > >> > > > > (A long and meandering email deserves a long and meandering response, > > right? Fair warning: this probably answers very few of your > > questions, but may make things clearer overall. Or it might not.) > > > > As you have clearly gathered, Freenet is complicated. That isn't > > really a problem; the rest of the Internet is really complicated too. > > People manage to use it just fine. A huge system of metaphors has > > been built up, around things like email (which is like regular mail, > > you see; except that it isn't, except that it's close enough to be a > > useful metaphor in some ways) and the web, and desktops, and files, > > and firewalls, and so on. The problem isn't that Freenet is > > complicated; it's that it's complicated in ways that aren't much like > > the rest of the Internet, and we haven't yet found good metaphors. > > > > On the rest of the Internet, we make do with bad metaphors, and then > > slowly add more detailed understanding. If you use a bad metaphor in > > ways that it doesn't apply, the results are often unexpected but > > rarely catastrophic. However, Freenet is anonymity software. > > Anonymity is a hard problem, that is highly prone to failures that the > > Freenet software has imperfect control over. The result is that when > > a bad metaphor for Freenet breaks, the result *is* potentially > > catastrophic. Furthermore, there aren't as many people using it, and > > so the better metaphors haven't been thought of. > > > > The combined result is that Freenet is hard to use. Some of that > > complexity is probably unavoidable -- there are plenty of rules that > > Freenet can't enforce that the user has to follow to remain anonymous. > > So Freenet includes lots of scary warnings that you *actually need to > > pay attention to*. Some of that complexity results from the fact that > > we haven't yet found a good metaphor for some things -- or even an > > approximate analogy to a something on the rest of the Internet where > > there are decent metaphors in use. And some of that complexity > > results from the fact that Freenet is very, very far from finished. > > > > Which brings me to your questions about plugins. Once upon a time, > > the only way to install a plugin was to manually download the jar file > > and tell Freenet to load it. For convenience, some plugins shipped > > with the installer (see, shipping is a decent metaphor in some ways, > > crappy in others). Then the ability to update plugins over the web > > was added, for convenience. Unfortunately, if you do that, you give > > away the fact that you're using Freenet to an observer who can see > > your network traffic (if you're using opennet, you've already done > > that; the concern is mostly for darknet users). Recently, toad added > > the ability to update over Freenet itself. Even though Freenet could > > already update itself over Freenet, adding plugin support added new > > complications. So now you have your choice of three different > > methods, each useful in different situations. > > > > I'm guessing that the Freemail documentation you're reading is > > outdated: there did not used to be a way to load official plugins over > > Freenet; now there is. The documentation hasn't all been updated. > > > > In general, the developers know Freenet is complicated. We know it's > > hard to use. We know the metaphors tend to suck. But here's the > > problem: we understand how it works without the metaphors, because > > we've grown used to the complexity. That makes it hard for us to know > > how to explain things better, how to improve the option wording or the > > warnings, or what sorts of names to choose for things. To give one > > example: there was a rather large amount of discussion over the > > distinction between "fetch" and "download". > > > > So when you say "this sucks" we just get frustrated and stop reading. > > Specific questions we can answer, but we'd rather find a way to avoid > > having the question be asked again later by some other user. What we > > need is user advice on *what would be better*. You don't like the way > > a warning is worded? Please, suggest a better wording! We'll > > probably respond by telling you all the ways your wording is awful; > > don't take it personally, it's not intended that way. Offer a > > revision that incorporates the suggestions. After a couple > > iterations, you'll probably have an improvement. There's nothing > > magic about such things; once your suggestion is better, we'll be > > happy to make use of it. > > > > Most of us would rather make the code better than make the > > documentation better. Writing documentation is hard, and the best > > result you can hope for is that fewer people complain; in fact, if you > > take something completely undocumented and write a cursory > > explanation, then plenty of people will find it useful -- and you'll > > get *more* complaints, not fewer. > > > > So, if you want improved documentation, you should be willing to > > improve it yourself. We have a wiki ( http://wiki.freenetproject.org/ > > ); feel free to add to existing pages or start new ones. I'm willing > > to answer questions, but I will be much, much happier about the > > prospect if the results are going to help more than one person. So, > > if the questions you have aren't answered in the docs / wiki / etc, > > and someone takes the time to answer them for you, then we would > > probably be very appreciative if you took the time to add some of > > those answers to the wiki so that someone else could get the benefit > > of them as well. > > > > Evan Daniel > > _______________________________________________ > > Support mailing list > > Support@freenetproject.org > > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support > > Unsubscribe at > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support > > Or mailto:support-requ...@freenetproject.org?subject=unsubscribe > > > > > > > Hi... I can only give you SOME hints since I'm on mac, but from there > you may find the corresponding actions. > First of all, to know if freenet is running or is not running, you > certainly have on windows some sort of a program monitoring the in > or/and out to and from your PC (some sort of a firewall) > We on mac have that Little app called LittleSnitch that monitores every > move OUT, and that can show it. So when I see some moves (up and down) > called : "java.free.node.NodeStarter", I know that Freenet is running > (and can even see all IP connected, changing fast in turn). > Since I've installed on one corner of my iMac-intel a Windows xp pro > and, some time ago, just to see, freenet, I found that one way to verify > if it was on or not (but I'm not an expert on windows, since I'm using > it only accidentally) was to click that icon called "stop freenet > running"... so if it says "freenet was not running", I know it wasn't... > and if it was then stopped and I wanted to have it running, I click the > icon "start freenet" > another hint, is the command line (it works on both Mac and Linux, and > should be very close to the one used on windows), and it is very simple: > > > cd /<path to your Feenet>/Freenet "return" > > ./run.sh start "return" > > and, to stop it: > > cd /<path to your Freenet>/Freenet "return" > > ./run.sh stop "return" > > That thing about "your freenet is now running", means simply that the > default is to run it when you start your PC. > > Now, the other thing is the interface... > > well, a think there is a specific interface usable on windows, but > anyway you can use your browser entering this address : > > http://127.0.0.1:8888/ > > 127.0.0.1 is of course your localhost, and 8888 the port number used by > Freenet, so, your browser doesn't get out, but U-turns and connects to > the freenet. > > Good luck > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/support/attachments/20091011/31b33f4d/attachment.htm > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Support mailing list > Support@freenetproject.org > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support > > End of Support Digest, Vol 49, Issue 10 > *************************************** >
_______________________________________________ Support mailing list Support@freenetproject.org http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:support-requ...@freenetproject.org?subject=unsubscribe
