sort of agree - front back reversals are always going to be an issue even in real life - but you'll get something if the sound is louder in one ear than the other on a recording - all I was saying is you definatley wont get height without pinna
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On 4 November 2017 at 18:16, Stefan Schreiber <st...@mail.telepac.pt> wrote: > Augustine Leudar wrote: > > Hi, >> Yes for horizontal localisation you may get away with ILDs and ITDs - >> >> > Is IMO not established psychoacoustical science... Front/back distinction > (extreme case) etc. etc.? > > Stefan > > > > but >> for height information the individual shape of the pinna is key and the >> system of migrating frequency peaks and notches caused by the direction >> dependant filterning caused by pinna shape . By filtering I mean the >> frequency peaks and notches which change in accordance with height, a >> filtering system that each individual brain has learnt, definitely work >> better with individuslised HRTFs.... Interpoliation between HRTF data sets >> is one option but there are others...... >> >> On 4 November 2017 at 00:54, Ralph Glasgal <glas...@ambiophonics.org> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> It doesn't take a millionaire any longer. If you follow the rules of >>> binaural psychoacoustics you don't need to measure any HRTFs to have a >>> recording and loudspeaker reproduction system that delivers normal >>> binaural >>> hearing cues to any reasonable standard and does not make use of the >>> stereophonic effect, or Ambisonic equations, but is a sort of >>> home-friendly >>> Wavefield Synthesis. Like WFS the listening area is much less restricted >>> than that of a normal stereo system and since no HRTFs or head tracking >>> is >>> involved multiple listeners can be accommodated. >>> >>> The first rule is that in any such chain, there must be one head shadow >>> but >>> only one and it need not be the end listener's. By head shadow in this >>> rule >>> we are just considering ITD and ILD in the frequency range where these >>> affect localization. Since we nod, rotate, and lean and sound goes over, >>> under, around the front, around the rear, etc. the ITD and ILD are quite >>> smeared and so the brain is used to this and can adjust to an ITD, ILD >>> head >>> shadow not its own. So it does not matter how the ITD and ILD are >>> recorded >>> or synthesized as long as they are normal values for a frontal or rear >>> stage >>> object and then are delivered unaltered to the ear canals. So no >>> personalized HRTFs so far or head tracking. >>> >>> The second rule operates in the higher frequency range where it is only >>> the >>> pinnae that determine localization. The rule is that in any recording >>> and >>> reproduction chain there must be one and only one set of pinnae and that >>> set >>> must be that of the end listener. Since few mic arrays have pinnae, >>> including the Soundfield, there is seldom a problem of having two sets of >>> pinnae in a system. (can use most dummy head mics without the outer >>> ears.) >>> So the only problem in having the remaining part of a soundfield >>> binaural, >>> is in making sure that all the sound sources come to the ear from a >>> direction that is pinnae proper. So for example central solo frontal >>> sound >>> should come from the central front. All reflections or direct sound >>> coming >>> from the rear should have directional components not only for the pinnae, >>> but also be delivered with binaural ILD and ITD values that are not then >>> allowed to be altered by the listener's head dimensions. >>> >>> It turns out that in the horizontal plain it is not too difficult to >>> provide >>> what the pinnae need in directionality without making any HF HRTF >>> measurements. So I and my converts easily obtain solid full circle >>> localization of direct sound in the horizontal plane from ordinary 4.0 >>> recordings like SACDs, DTS 5.1, SQ, UHJ, Dolby Atmos, Auro 3d, etc. using >>> just four speakers and only a modest amount of numerical processing. >>> Direct >>> elevated sound sources can be accommodated using similar rules but that >>> needs more research and real music recordings to test with. Hall >>> ambience >>> height is easily accommodated as is all concert hall reverb, also in a >>> binaural friendly way. >>> >>> The rules are different for headphones or earphones, however. Lots of >>> AES >>> and other papers on all this, including several on the Ambiophone 3D mic >>> array that anyone can copy and use to make better 4.0 recordings of live >>> sound. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of >>> Augustine >>> Leudar >>> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 3:17 PM >>> To: Surround Sound discussion group >>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] 3D Browser disco >>> >>> great sound design but no cigar on the binaural front - thats really not >>> going to get solved until a quick and convenient way of measuring HRTFs >>> is >>> designed - I have several in case any millionaires out there are >>> interested >>> .... >>> >>> On 3 November 2017 at 18:36, Ralph Glasgal <glas...@ambiophonics.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Have you tried https://cloud.aria3d.com Using a Chrome browser, >>>> Christos Tsakostas, a Greek audio researcher produces an up to 180 >>>> degrees wide stage in the horizontal plane starting with ordinary 5.1 >>>> or 2.0 recordings and you can play your own UHJ's this way. There is >>>> also no reason why this technique could not soon produce a full circle >>>> of direct sound using just four speakers from 4.0/5.1 media including >>>> Ambisonic media decoded to 4.0 which I have heard this way via DTS >>>> media. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sursound mailing list >>> Sursound@music.vt.edu >>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, >>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- Dr. Augustine Leudar Artistic Director Magik Door LTD Company Number : NI635217 Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, Belfast BT88LL -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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