Hi all,
Thanks for the replies! I’ve enjoyed reading through them and investigating the different papers/leads people have mentioned. > All different tools for different jobs. My primary interest is in soundfield re-construction for listeners in a sweet spot. i.e. there is one central listening position, like formats such as stereo and 5.1 require. For this application is one format better than the others? Right now, I am working with a system that has up to 20 individually routable loudspeakers in a hemispherical array. The positioning of the speakers is flexible. > Ps if I remember rightly Peter Stitt may have done some studies comparing > vbap and ambisonics in an octoganal array at sarc you could check him out. I sent Peter an email, but have not heard back from him. I also could not find any documentation on this particular study. > Details on the piece here: https://electrocd.com/en/oeuvre/41658/Pierre_Alexandre_Tremblay/Bucolic_Broken https://electrocd.com/en/oeuvre/41658/Pierre_Alexandre_Tremblay/Bucolic_Broken > Very interesting composition! I hope I can hear it one day in the intended listening environment. > I would say that HOA start to be usable for focused point source around the 5th order, and gets better higher up with > the problems of then having the speaker setup to fill it This is also very interesting! Can’t Ambisonics be decoded to almost any loudspeaker array? Did you find that adding more speakers to an Ambisonics system helped as much as increasing the Ambisonic order? How did you encode and decode to 5thorder Ambisonics? Did you compare to a comparable channel-based array? > http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/whp/whp-pdf-files/WHP254.pdf Great paper; thanks for pointing me towards it. In this paper they compared an ITU 5.0 surround array to different Ambisonic arrays (hexagon and octagon). Is there a study that compares how well height is conveyed between Ambisonic and channel-based systems? This study only looked at sound in the horizontal plane. Another question that came up reading these replies: what is the ideal Ambisonics playback system? On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 4:42 PM Augustine Leudar <[email protected]> wrote: > Oh I forgot - if you dont want to buy max PD is another option > which is free > > On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 at 22:17, Ralph Glasgal <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > You can implement the RACE equations using Max. It was easily configured > > by > > Robert LiKamWa, Arizona State University, [email protected] > > > > You can do what you want with four speakers. You can have a full circle > of > > direct sound in the horizontal plane using Max. You just need one front > > 2.0 > > pair that has good values of frontal LD and TD uncontaminated by rear > > direct > > sound (or ceiling stuff) and one rear 2.0 pair that also has good values > of > > LD and TD and is uncontaminated by frontal direct sound or ceiling stuff. > > There are several such 4.0 DTS encoded sample tracks at > > www.ambiophonics.org. You can also derive such 4.0 tracks from B format > > recordings but get rid of the Z component. You can use an Ambiophone for > > free to make recordings if you like. RACE is also free to use. > > > > All this stuff is mostly free or very low cost compared to Max. You can > > use > > JRiver and other low cost DAWs. Doing with four speakers what you are > > trying to do with eight is also a saving. > > > > Ralph Glasgal > > BEP, MSEE, AES, IEEE > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sursound [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Phi > Shu > > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2019 11:10 AM > > To: Surround Sound discussion group > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Study Comparing Ambisonic and Channel Based > Systems > > > > > You should consider Ambiophonics. > > > > > > well, not sure it would integrate with my workflow, primarily using > Nuendo > > and Max right now. > > > > With four speakers and 4.0 media such as > > > Dolby Atmos or Auro3D or B format, you can have a full circle of direct > > > sound in the horizontal plane. > > > > > > > Have zero interest in Dolby stuff (and currently using B-Format, 8 > > speakers, double diamond), I'm talking about rigs like dude above > > discusses, he mentions BEAST, there's ZKM, SARC, Notam, bunch of other > > institutional spaces, as well as the 4D and Envelop dudes, these are all > > propriety arrays, so what I'm talking about is some dude, working at > home, > > with 8 speakers, thinking about how a work might translate to one of > those > > rigs, what's the best strategy? in terms of getting some sense of height? > > > > > > > You can have several listeners and you don't > > > need head tracking. > > > > > > Head tracking is not really I concern at this point. > > > > > > > Height however does require more speakers but height > > > hall ambience is easy to obtain. > > > > > > OK, but again, the question, with an 8 speaker limitation, is a cube > using > > B-Format the best approach to get height, with phantom images operating > as > > "virtual" speakers? Or is using HOA mixing to headphones better? Or, just > > stick one speaker overhead and use VBAP instead? Surely someone on here > has > > a clue about the best approach to this? > > > > > > > Take a look at the miniDSP, Amtra, > > > Soundpimp, NeutronMP, AmbiophonicsDSP, etc. Links, AES papers and > > > tutorials > > > at www.ambiophonics.org > > > > > > I will look, thanks, but i ain't spending money on stuff. > > > > There are also sample demo 4.0 tracks available > > > made with an Ambiophone, a 4.0 mic array originally conceived by seeing > > > what > > > happens when you combine two Soundfield mics and a shaped structure > > between > > > them. See the papers by Robin Miller under the tab Recording Engineers > > > Corner. See also the hall IRs furnished by Angelo Farina if you want > > > ambient height for music. > > > > > > > Thanks for the additional info will check it out. > > > > Cheers!! : ) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Sursound [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > > Augustine > > > Leudar > > > Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 4:05 AM > > > To: Surround Sound discussion group > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Study Comparing Ambisonic and Channel Based > > Systems > > > > > > I havent done a study on it but ive done hundreds of compositions and > > > installations and the differences are pretty obvious. Ambisonics is > > pretty > > > good at filling a hole in the panning but vbap can be better under some > > > circumstances. Ambisonics is pretty much useles if you want to say, > makes > > > sounds fly round a labarinth of corridors covering a festival area in > > which > > > case dbap is better suited. Wfs handles focussed sources better. 5-,1 > > > strictty speaking is a speaker array so you could have ambisonics over > a > > > 5.1 speaker setup. Ive toyed with the idea of doing a study comparing > > how > > > well tecniques can get sounds to sppear close to a lustener between > wfs > > , > > > ambisonics and dbap but its pointless reslly as its obvious to anyone > who > > > uses these things what the results would be.All different tools for > > > different jobs. > > > > > > On Friday, 19 April 2019, Michael Bevers <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > I'm curious if anyone knows of, or has conducted, any studies > comparing > > > an > > > > Ambisonic system to a channel-based system? For example, a comparison > > of > > > an > > > > Auro 3-D system with an Ambisonic system. Or even just a 5.1 surround > > > > system with an Ambisonic system. > > > > > > > > I haven't found any studies myself directly comparing the two, even > > > through > > > > AES. > > > > > > > > Thanks for any help, > > > > Michael > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > > > attachments/20190419/8966cd12/attachment.html> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Sursound mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > > here, > > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Dr. Augustine Leudar > > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > > > Company Number : NI635217 > > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > > > Belfast BT88LL > > > www.magikdoor.net > > > +44(0)7555784775 > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > URL: > > > < > > > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20190420/cc6 > > > 3b0e9/attachment.html > > > > > < > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20190420/cc6 > > 3b0e9/attachment.html > > < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20190420/cc63b0e9/attachment.html > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sursound mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, > > > edit > > > account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sursound mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > < > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20190429/0d1 > > dce55/attachment.html > > < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20190429/0d1dce55/attachment.html > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sursound mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > > edit > > account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sursound mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > -- > Dr. Augustine Leudar > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > Company Number : NI635217 > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > Belfast BT88LL > www.magikdoor.net > +44(0)7555784775 > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20190429/96b755f8/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Sursound mailing list > [email protected] > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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