Hi Howard E.,
Hi Howard S.,
About "16-Bit OS, dealing with Graphics and this mail-list" of
February 6, "survpc, dos, & mailers" and "16 Bit Graphic Editors" of
February 7, respectively:
HE> I used Piclab for cutting after adding text with Improces.
MS> We find ourselves at opposite poles of a same spectrum.
HE> Chacun son gout.
^^
Tirelidou! As Gilles Vigneault (the poet/signer) would argue. ;-)
^^ ^^
HS> ...Neopaint... ...could adjust the palette to whatever the .gif was
HS> that it imported. ...you could convert a jpg or whatever to .gif or
HS> .pcx, then block erase whatever you dont want, even the whole screen
HS> but still be left in exactly the same palette...
I find this quite interresting, and i do have the archive... but i
still fail at this miserably. Does the page's palette get "imported" to
my .GIF if i save it as a Wall-Paper (`NetScape'), for example? Thanks.
:^)
HS> Not sure how all the mail about dos, graphics and survpc fits
HS> together...
That one is simple enough. I'm a single OS user at the moment; my
system is running DOS v6.20 (Fr.) and i'm trying to render my ~WEB~ site
more convivial to non text-mode users. My hobby is LEGACY DOS InterNet/
BBSing so i came to the `SurvPC' mail-list hoping for new correspondance
but this implies that i find a way to manage better the different media.
I wish i succeeded at wrapping it all in one reply. Any questions?
P-)
MS> I compared both the `NetMail for DOS v2.12' files with my `{Commo}'
MS> capture files and it seems they're just the same...
HE> ...in my netmail\mail directory there are two small programs ld.exe
HE> and nm2mail.exe that are used to convert the individual .txt/.wrk
HE> files to a single unix mailbox. ...with... ...nmo-e03.zip.
HS> The advantage of a format like SOUP is mostly speed. Readmail still
HS> undigests digests best for me, and it is such a pleasure to have
HS> those 20 submessages in one mail message from survpc broken up... I
HS> have configured yarn and readmail so that i can both reply and
HS> compose mail to the same soup packet... ...sent out with netmail...
^^^^^^^
I had a copy of `NMO-E04.ZIP' (link available on my `DR_Web-Spyder'
page)... :> I did try to play with `LilDir v1' & `NetMail to Mail' (or
whatever?) and it creates `GetMail.LST' but then something else would be
required to be done. Hummm... It will be simpler just to use `OLIM'!!!
Well, that's a starting point, certainly! :) I'll just need some time.
Oh well... The good news is that it appears this can be done! 8^D
HE> It is just like standard telnet except that it has built-in zmodem.
HE> ...after starting zmodem on the server (bbs), you escape back to
HE> ztelnet (^]) and "rz -v" or "sz -v" for built-in zmodem.
Having limited experience with `Basic Linux', etc., "^]" seems like
what i do when i want to pass a command to the ~TelNet~ client - `Spiffy
TelNet' on an `OS/2'+`Maximus' BBS is similar to that when i want to get
from the default ~NVT~ mode to ~BINARY~ mode; or force it to quit, etc.
HE> I never tried a simple "rz" or "sz" or any other external transfer.
OKay. :) Well, you made me curious so i searched my notes for any
usefull information which i had gathered about how to install `MiniCOM',
`VirtMoDem', `C-Kermit' and the `ZMoDem' twin files... I have 24 Mb for
a ~RAMDisk~ with 8 Mb ~RAM~ left for `Basic Linux' but i was trying `PC-
Pine' lately and, as i succeeded in a test with some `Kermit' NewsGroup,
the good news came to my ears: `C-Kermit v8.0.2x' was released recently
and it is said to support ~FTP~/~HTTP~! I don't know how difficult that
will be but the day i get into this again it will be for `C-Kermit' 1st!
`VirtMoDem' and `RZ'/`SZ' will have to wait their turn somewhat later...
8^b,
HE> If a ztelnet-like program existed for DOS, I wouldn't find it
HE> necessary to use a "shim" + comm program for telnet.
MS> `MS-Kermit' accesses, euh... the ~TCP~/~IP~ stack (?) directly...
HE> The way I understand it, is that MS-Kermit (telnet version) includes
HE> the Wattcp tcp/ip stack and talks to the packet driver.
Indeed. Only, i believe the terminal emulation part is independant
(it can also address other communication ports) and there's the ~TelNet~
protocol between an internal ~TCP~/~IP~ stack and that terminal emulator
part. All of this being chained inside, i fail to find how any external
file transfer protocol might "share" a ~TelNet~ session and i still have
the same problem about `Basic Linux'. But the later OS being new, i had
some hopes that this sort of problem had been resolved, thru virtualized
serial-ports or whatever. As long as `ZMoDem'/`Kermit' and ~TelNet~ can
be together, euh... Well, it won't matter much how clumzy it's like!...
;-)
MS> the Virtual ~TelNet~ MoDem "shim" would have made them happy side-by
MS> side... I believe `C-Kermit' is just like its DOS counterpart...
HE> I believe it may be possible to use a "shim" + minicom for telnet,
HE> but this mixing of dialup and network apps seems overly complicated
HE> and mostly unnecessary to me.
That's certainly complicated for me as well... Not necessary? I'd
be glad to agree if there were a ~TelNet~/DialUp terminal emulator which
has both the `ZMoDem' and `Kermit' file transfer protocols built-in! :)
Oh, and, euh... Don't let the Linux people think it can't be done!
(@ @)
HS> ...I recently did replace trusty epppd with the smaller, LSPPP.
HS> I still find LSPPP a little more finicky than epppd -- Seems many
HS> times if some internet application crashes or some such, my whole
HS> machine freezes and I must do a hard reboot.
I used the drivers from the Novell NetWare suite which can be found
in the Lineo/Caldera `DR_Web-Spyder' ShareWare and it was giving me some
nice performance but i ended up using `EPPPD' on a regular basis when my
`{Commo}' macro started to integrate more functions together... `LSPPP'
was a nice effort and i included it as an alternative driver for `EPPPD'
but i observed about the same behavior as you and switched back as well!
HE> ...the mail that ends up on my PC using several POP/IMAP clients is
HE> almost always in unix mailbox format.
[...]
HS> ...the old dos pine versions like 3.91 or 3.96 do not have the
HS> ability to download and read mail from a POP server.
I tried `PC-Pine' (instead of `{Commo}'+`RLFossil') on my NewsGroup
server and it works (for the reading part, at least)! One might try the
same and more if he got an ~IMAP~ acces and he feels like it - i found i
needed the ~IMAP~ part for doing ~E-Mail~. Oh, and now i learn that the
Unix MailBox format which i may be able to get from `OLIM' (i use ~POP3~
instead)... well, it is also the very same format used for ~IMAP~! 8^)
Hummm... Howard (S.), would this be like what i think it could be?
8^D
HS> ...had it working for years as an imap mail client. I also created
HS> added scripts which convert mail I download using pine into Yarn/
HS> Soup format so I can read and process it with offline readers...
Oh! I don't have the ~IMAP~ access but i shure can read this mail-
list using the ~NNTP~ server on a BBS, and using `PC-Pine' that is! 8^)
I imagined i could try to create a directory which looked like an ~IMAP~
INBOX but v3.96 (the last DOS version) wouldn't be fully compatible with
the ~IMAP~ v4 specification, possibly. Where should this get me next?!?
%-b,
I most definitively got to try a new modification of `PineRC' soon!
I have to leave the ~IMAP~ thing aside, for the moment, unless `PC-Pine'
can be made to think it's on a corner of my Hard-Disk. The `OLIM' suite
may allow me to move the mail-list back & forth between my ~POP~ account
and `Pine's special (and still theoretical) ~IMAP~ local directory! 8-)
Oye! And where should happen the ~SOUP~ format translation? ~ 8-o
Boy, i need a glass of water. OKay, the egg is ready to be served!
%-D)
Salutations,
www3.sympatico.ca/bicephale
a/s Bicephale
... DOS+TCP/IP+TelNet+ZMoDem/Kermit+.QWK technologies for XTs or better!
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