Or just keep driving that old Rabbit or Golf. How is it you could find a 48mpg diesel passenger vehicle in 1978, but their darned near impossible to find now?
And what happend to the little 52 mpg gasoline Geos? Now they call a 38mpg vehicle "green?" Go figure. Todd ----- Original Message ----- From: studio53 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 10:53 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? VW Jetti or Passat TDI is the way to go. Portfolio & Resume: http://www.jesseparris.com/Portfolio_Jesse_Parris/ Jesse Parris | studio53 | graphics / web design | stamford, ct | 203.324.4371 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Klingensmith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 10:50 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? > My "real car" gets 30 mpg. I would think a minicooper would get 50 at least. > Maybe on diesel? > > --- steve spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not > > call 33mpg on premium unleaded "clean"......... > > > > > > Steve Spence > > Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: > > http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm > > > > Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ > > Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - > > http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> > > Cc: <biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:23 AM > > Subject: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? > > > > > > > http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 > > > AlterNet -- > > > So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? > > > Allie Gottlieb, Metro Silicon Valley > > > http://www.metroactive.com > > > April 19, 2002 > > > > > > If you're like me, and you are, you want a good, cheap, fast, safe > > > and cute car that can take you to work and back, and out for fun, on > > > little or no gas. You also need room to cart around your laptop, your > > > nonfat latte, a pal and your four-piece silver-sparkle Ludwig drum > > > set, which in my case is named Natasha J. Sparky. > > > > > > Since we've got so much in common, it makes sense to share car-search > > > secrets. I'll start. What I've learned about the latest electric, > > > hybrid and just plain cuter- or cleaner-than-thou vehicles that you > > > can buy or lease at this moment there are plenty of choices, > > > combinations and features. Sorting them all out is confusing but not > > > impossible. > > > > > > The ones accessible to me as of presstime were the BMW Mini Cooper, > > > the Honda Insight, the Honda Civic Hybrid, the Honda Civic GX > > > natural-gas vehicle, the Toyota Prius, the Toyota Rav4 EV, the Corbin > > > Sparrow, the Ford Th!nk, the Ford Ranger EV and the DaimlerChrysler > > > GEM. > > > > > > Idling Politics > > > > > > Here's another thing I've learned. Despite all the chatter about fuel > > > efficiency from the Legislature lately, and the attempts by various > > > cities to get their fleets on a greener track, this has been a > > > slow-going revolution with plenty of setbacks. > > > > > > Witness last month's rise and fall of the Corporate Average Fuel > > > Economy standards: Senator John Kerry's (D-Mass.) proposal to require > > > new vehicles to average a respectable 36 mpg of gas by 2015 did a > > > giant belly flop. SUVs get to be an estimated 25 percent more > > > polluting than other cars. Gasoline has drivers over an oil barrel, > > > and so, as they do in any time of war with oil-producing nations, gas > > > prices are going up. > > > > > > Despite all this, a good clean car is still hard to find. It seems > > > like we should have evolved more by now. For years, there's been hope > > > that cars will become greener in the form of research on cleaner > > > cars. The web is overflowing with information about "alternative fuel > > > vehicles" from the U.S. Department of Energy and agencies like the > > > Natural Resources Defense Council that push for fuel-efficiency > > > legislation. > > > > > > Car dealers, however, blame the public's disinterest for the > > > Greenmobile's underwhelming entrance into the market. Almost no one > > > pays any real attention to environmental ratings when buying a car, > > > the dealers say. Not like, say, the kind of cup holders it has, or > > > how the bike rack attaches or that all-important consumer issue: > > > color. > > > > > > And those fuel inefficient SUVs remain hugely popular, regardless of > > > the fact that they are extraordinarily polluting. According to > > > GreenerCars.com, SUVs pollute about twice as much as, say, my Civic, > > > which on average discharges 2 tons a year more carbon dioxide badness > > > than the Insight. > > > > > > "Although engines in general are becoming more efficient, smoother > > > and better-performing, the trend toward larger SUVs and pickups has > > > contributed to the average fuel economy dipping to its lowest point > > > in more than 20 years," notes Consumer Reports' 2002 auto trends > > > report. > > > > > > So that's the bad news, but there's hope. > > > > > > Frankenfans > > > > > > Existing green cars have their fans. According to a Department of > > > Energy report, last year there were nearly 500,000 alternative-fuel > > > vehicles on the roads in the United States. Of those half-million > > > cars, 10,400 were electric. > > > > > > Consumers dedicate websites to electric cars and half-gas, > > > half-electric hybrids, or frankencars. One fan posted a diary all > > > about his 1999 electric Sparrow on the Internet and has kept it up > > > for three years. Another self-described electric-car enthusiast, > > > Joseph Lado from Virginia (who doesn't actually drive an electric > > > car, evidently is dissatisfied with the way they are charged and is > > > trying to help start a company that sells better ones) summarizes > > > alternatives to Old Man Combustion. > > > > > > "We can manufacture a practical electric car NOW," Lado declares in a > > > column he sent out for publication. Lado touts regenerative braking, > > > used currently by the hybrids to recharge their batteries. He lauds > > > solar power as another recharging source. Lado seems an appropriate > > > representation of the electric-car industry. He sounds > > > half-reasonable, half-kooky. Another recharging idea he lists in his > > > column is the robot in the driveway: "It's either a robot arm or some > > > other mechanical device that automatically pops up and connects your > > > electric car to a source of electricity (i.e., an outlet)." > > > > > > Who's Driving Whom? > > > > > > Currently, car manufacturers that distribute in the United States are > > > producing cleaner cars. They have to because the Environmental > > > Protection Agency makes them. By 2003, zero-emission vehicles must > > > make up 10 percent of each major automaker's stock. However, > > > manufacturers apparently aren't required to make these cars entirely > > > available to the public. They only need to meet their quota of > > > zero-emission vehicles. Then dealers get to decide which cars to > > > push, and buyers get to pick the ones they want. > > > > > > Despite being shoved around by the EPA and CARB, car makers aren't > > > the innocent babes they might appear to be. They can design > > > problematic eco-friendly cars. These cars mostly cost too much, > > > because, industry reps claim, they're more expensive to make. > > > > > > Honda sales rep Kevin Brooks estimates that it costs $90 more per car > > > for a manufacturer to make a catalytic converter that cleans a car > > > enough to meet California's "super-ultralow emissions" standard, > > > rather than just the "ultralow." Manufacturers pass on the higher > > > cost of making cleaner cars to customers. (You might, too, if you had > > > to pay for say 10,000 cleaner cars.) > > > > > > The government doles out incentives for green car-buying. California > > > tries to appeal to drivers' yen to beat traffic with a carpool-lane > > > exemptions for electric and compressed natural gas (but not hybrid) > > > vehicles. Drivers can file for an occupancy-exemption sticker from > > > the Department of Motor Vehicles. The federal and state governments > > > also try to entice car buyers into the cleaner emissions scene with > > > thousands of dollars in tax breaks and credits. > > > > > > But some of the lower-emission technology, like powerful electric > > > batteries, is so expensive that the financial incentives seem > > > meaningless for those unburdened by wealth. For instance, you can get > > > $9,000 back after buying the RAV4 EV, but this small SUV costs more > > > than $42,000! > > > > > > Most of the cars I test-drove fall well outside my price range of > > > $8,000 to $10,001. Most also fell into California's two > > > least-polluting categories: Super Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle or Zero > > > Emissions Vehicle. The Cooper weighs in with ultralow emissions and > > > boasts the further distinction of being the only stick-shift I > > > test-drove. > > > > > > Yeah I'm Green ... If Green Means Cheap > > > > > > Most conversations about fuel efficiency in the news magically turn > > > into moral debates about the bad people who drive SUVs or the showy > > > liberals who can afford expensive statement cars. That's kind of > > > stupid given that, ultimately, cars are practical, point-A-to-point-B > > > tools. I think driving an electric car is pretty much like driving a > > > cell phone: the roaming limitations are highly inconvenient, and > > > there's always the vague lingering concern that somehow it will give > > > you cancer. > > > > > > When it comes down to it, my concern for the environment pretty much > > > disappears when I buy a car. Sure, intellectually I'm rooting for the > > > ozone layer. But I have to be able to afford a car before I can drive > > > it. And it has to work the whole way to my destination. And it must > > > look cool -- the way the Mini looked when Mary Stuart Masterson drove > > > it as Watts (a drummer; everything comes full circle!) in 1987's > > > smash hit Some Kind of Wonderful. > > > > > > Allie Gottlieb writes for the Metro Silicon Valley, where this > > > article first appeared. > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > ===== > -Martin Klingensmith > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > http://devzero.ath.cx/ > http://www.nnytech.net/ > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > http://health.yahoo.com > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. 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