Hi Andrew,
You make a very good point. It is sad that we all around the world can not
get fair and balanced reporting of the news so that the individual can
think and form their own thoughts on any given issue.
I have found to their credit that BBC does seem to do a better job on
issues that do not directly involve the UK than do the US news services,
but that is just my observation.
Best regards,
Vern
Vern
Re: The BBC
I watch the BBC regularly here in UK. To get some idea of the level
of bias both on it, and certainly the other UK terrestrial stations
(I don't have access to satellite), I mentally note the frequency
of 'us' 'our' 'we' amongst the various presenters, reporters,
interviewers, interviewees ...
Very, very high frequency indeed.
Andrew Preston
On Thu, 03 Apr 2003 11:57:48 +0300, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Keith,
>
> "It's well known that CNN and Fox news will give you a slanted,
> incomplete and unbalanced picture, very much toeing the (war)party
> line."
>
> Yes we both agree that CNN and FOX are not the best source of information
> and that one always has to check, as best they can, information provided
> by
> them. But that does not change the fact that CNN, FOX and BBC are the
> only
> choices that I have for UNCENSORED news.
>
> "The same applies to US mainstream media in general -
> again, much info on that posted here."
>
> Yes the US media has little right to call themselves journalist.
>
> "Since Sept 11 vast numbers of
> Americans have been going elsewhere for their news, or at least for
> balance, and even more so now."
>
> Yes the ones that live in the USA can and do use the internet very
> effectively to do just that. Those of us who live in the Middle East have
> very limited access to the internet and it is CENSORED by the national
> government. We are not permitted to see many of the URL's that are sent
> on
> this list, which is why you sometimes criticize us for not having read
> them. If you were more informed about the Middle East you would have
> known
> this. Your criticize is a little like laughing at a crippled person
> because
> they can not run well and it is in similarly done in poor taste.
>
> "So you can't get anything else in Riyadh? On the other hand, here you
> are on the Internet, so what exactly can't you get?"
>
> We can not get any site that the Saudi government has decided is not
> appropriate. They do not like and therefore CENSOR it by not permitting
> us
> to connect to any site that they feel involves politics, pornographic
> material or that may reflect badly on the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. In day
> to day practice we can not get about half of the URL's that we try.
>
> "You seem to have
> no difficulty finding stuff like the John Leo piece you posted, and
> other such, but you're blind to the truly massive, worldwide, ongoing
> and growing anti-war demonstrations - one of the biggest stories
> around, widely reported everywhere EXCEPT in the media you access?"
>
> That particular item was sent to me by email.
>
> "but you're blind to the truly massive, worldwide, ongoing
> and growing anti-war demonstrations - one of the biggest stories
> around"
>
> If I had answered you with this line you would not have accepted it, why
> should the rest of the list now from you. The question was simply how
> does
> less than 1% anti war protestors become a majority?
>
> "widely reported everywhere EXCEPT in the media you access?"
>
> This may well be true but we here in Riyadh would have no way to know.
>
> "Hm... So what's the difference between your TV/computer and Nelson's
> telescope?"
>
> I am sorry but I must assume that this is a British slur that I do not
> understand, but I suspect it is uncalled for.
>
> Have a good day.
>
> Best regards,
> Vern
>
>
>
>
>
>Κ Hi Vern
>
> It's well known that CNN and Fox news will give you a slanted,
> incomplete and unbalanced picture, very much toeing the (war)party
> line. Studies showing that have been posted here, I guess you didn't
> read them. The same applies to US mainstream media in general -
> again, much info on that posted here. Since Sept 11 vast numbers of
> Americans have been going elsewhere for their news, or at least for
> balance, and even more so now.
>
> So you can't get anything else in Riyadh? On the other hand, here you
> are on the Internet, so what exactly can't you get? You seem to have
> no difficulty finding stuff like the John Leo piece you posted, and
> other such, but you're blind to the truly massive, worldwide, ongoing
> and growing anti-war demonstrations - one of the biggest stories
> around, widely reported everywhere EXCEPT in the media you access?
>
> Hm... So what's the difference between your TV/computer and Nelson's
> telescope?
>
> Best
>
> Keith
>
>
>
> >Hi Keith,
> >
> >Just to use the material you provided as an example of what I see it
> >indicates that hundreds of thousands of people are demonstrating. For
this
> >I will except that but I have not seen that on CNN or Fox news the only
> USA
> >news services we get here in Riyadh. So hundreds of thousands could be
as
> >much as 500,000 and if we then take the people in the USA which is
> >something over 250,000,000 we find that it is something less than 1%.
When
> >I learned math that was not unanimity or even a majority. From the
> >information provided on CNN from the Gallop polls it would seem that
over
> >70% of the USA still are firmly supporting the war.
> >
> >Have a good day.
> >
> >Best regards,
> >Vern
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >Andrew,
> > >
> > >I made no slur on "the so called 'usual suspects' of 'Lefties',
> 'pinkos',
> > >'Arab-lovers', 'pro-Castro'." I only sent along for the group to
review
> > >an article that had some interesting information in it. If the
> opposition
> > >is
> > >as wide and deep as you indicate that it is then we would see much
> larger
> > >demonstrations and more than just a little rhetoric from a relatively
> few
> > >countries
> > >at the UN and in the press.
> >
> >Hard to imagine quite what direction you're looking in Vern to get
> >such a view. This is what everyone else is seeing in the US - in most
> >other countries "opposition to the war was closer to unanimity than
> >to a mere majority".
> >
> >http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58849-2003Mar31.html
> >
> >http://uk.news.yahoo.com/030401/80/dwp9s.html
> >
> >http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/20331/story.htm
> >
> >Tuesday, April 1, 2003 by Reuters
> >U.S. Anti-War Movement Breaks Ranks with the '60s
> >by Greg Frost
> >
> >BOSTON - Peace vigils and rallies against war in Iraq are taking
> >place out in U.S. towns and cities, drawing hundreds of thousands of
> >participants.
> >
> >Student strikes are disrupting college campuses, where old protest
> >anthems like "We Shall Overcome" mix with the tinny sound of speeches
> >belted out over load hailers.
> >
> >Jimmy Garden, 11, of Brookline, Mass., carries a peace sign during a
> >demonstration in Boston, Saturday, March 29, 2003, where some 25,000
> >people gathered and marched in protest of the war with Iraq. (AP
> >Photo/Angela Rowlings)
> >The scene may resemble the Vietnam-era U.S. student movement. But
> >scratch the surface and it soon becomes clear that this peace push is
> >strikingly different from that of the 1960s when it was a movement of
> >the young, of university students and of those on the political left.
> >
> >Participants in current anti-war protests cut across the spectrum of
> >ages, races and backgrounds and include many who would consider
> >themselves mainstream Americans. They are joining more predictable
> >crowds of college students, environmentalists, socialists, anarchists
> >and other activists.
> >
> >John Llewellyn, a 45-year-old computer industry worker from
> >Knoxville, Tennessee, is among the tens of thousands of people who
> >turned up at a recent anti-war protest in Boston -- the city's
> >biggest demonstration in at least 30 years.
> >
> >A former "long-time Republican," Llewellyn said he had never
> >protested against anything in his life and admitted he did not fit
> >the mould of an anti-war activist, but said President George W.
> >Bush's policies had gone too far.
> >
> >"It's gotten to the point that it's scary," said Llewellyn, who was
> >visiting Boston with his family.
> >
> >NOT THE 'USUAL SUSPECTS'
> >
> >Although turnout at anti-war rallies has been strong, polls show that
> >most Americans support the war in Iraq.
> >
> >Still, many of Llewellyn's fellow protesters said the war has stirred
> >something within them that had lain dormant for decades and, in some
> >cases, their entire lives.
> >
> >"This is the first time I have ever done something like this," said
> >66-year-old Jung Ming Wu of Acton, Massachusetts, as he gathered with
> >thousands of other protesters gathered in a park in Boston. "It's
> >very emotional."
> >
> >Victoria Carter a 46-year-old actuary, said her appearance at the
> >Boston rally was her first since taking part in an anti-apartheid
> >protest decades ago.
> >
> >"I usually trust the government, but this time it's different," said
> >Carter, who lives in the Boston area.
> >
> >Eli Pariser, the international campaigns director of MoveOn.org
> >(http://moveon.org), an online political network that claims more
> >than 1.3 million U.S. members and another 700,000 around the world,
> >said many of those involved are not "the usual suspects."
> >
> >"They're ordinary folks who often have never been politically
> >involved before and consider themselves patriots," said Pariser, who
> >is based in New York. "But they feel so alarmed by the direction the
> >country is going and possible consequences of war that they feel like
> >they have to get involved."
> >
> >The participation of many middle of the road Americans is no
> >accident. Some anti-war groups have consciously reached out to the
> >mainstream by avoiding some of the more strident rhetoric and
> >confrontational tactics of recent left-wing campaigns such as the
> >anti-globalisation protests at the Seattle World Trade Organisation
> >talks four years ago.
> >
> >Some anti-war strategists have strived to cast their cause as a
> >patriotic one that loyal Americans can embrace as part of the
> >country's moral conscience.
> >
> >TECHNOLOGICAL BOOST
> >
> >Technology also aids their cause.
> >
> >Armed with e-mails and the power of the Internet, anti-war activists
> >organise protests in hours, not the days or weeks it took their
> >predecessors. One of their tactics before the war began involved
> >bombarding the White House and Congress with electronic mail and
> >faxes in a bid to block telephone lines.
> >
> >Joseph Gerson, a 56-year-old Boston-based pacifist, marvels at the
> >speed at which rallies are put together, and he envies the breadth of
> >information available to protesters online.
> >
> >"I spent a big part of the Vietnam War era organising anti-war
> >protests in Arizona. We were pretty isolated. There was a right-wing
> >monopoly newspaper, and we were dependent on what outside speakers
> >would bring in or what we got in the mail. That was slow," said
> >Gerson, a former classmate of Bill Clinton at Georgetown University
> >in the 1960s.
> >
> >Gerson said he is stunned by how quickly the anti-war movement has
> >grown, noting that it took years to reach a critical mass of people
> >opposed to the conflict in Vietnam.
> >
> >New York has already seen two demonstrations within five weeks
> >numbering in the hundreds of thousands -- a broad coalition of 200
> >groups under the umbrella of United for Peace and Justice.
> >
> >RE-ENERGISED STUDENTS
> >
> >Part of the movement's strength, Gerson said, comes from a newly
> >energised student base -- a big shift from the economically booming
> >'90s that generally kept a lid on campus activism.
> >
> >"The students who are coming out to demonstrations...are
> >rediscovering their political power," he said. "They are learning
> >lessons about American society and about democracy that have been
> >submerged for the last decade."
> >
> >Further distinguishing the present peace drive is the absence of a
> >draft that sucked a generation of American men into military service
> >and served as a major catalyst for the peace movement of the late
> >'60s.
> >
> >In place of the draft, Gerson said, is a sense of "straight altruism"
> >shared by people who are simply concerned about their country's
> >future.
> >
> >Stephen Nathanson, a philosophy professor at Northeastern University
> >and a former Vietnam-era peace activist, said many current
> >demonstrators are also more comfortable with their sense of
> >patriotism.
> >
> >"In the '60s, people just accepted that if they were against the war,
> >they were going to be anti-patriotic," Nathanson said. "Now, people
> >seem to understand that you can oppose the war because you're
> >patriotic. People who oppose the war actually think it's bad for the
> >country, that it will make the country unsafe."
> >
> >Joshua Jackson, an anti-war organiser at Hampshire College in western
> >Massachusetts, said activism is not confined to "lefty" college towns
> >like Madison, Wisconsin, or Berkeley, California, -- and it goes
> >beyond the free-love, drug-happy flower power of the late '60s.
> >
> >"Sure there are punk rockers and hippies taking part," he said. "But
> >this is not a counter-cultural movement: You're seeing a lot of
> >'normal' people involved with this."
> >
> >© 2003 Reuters Ltd
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >I personally do not see the article as rabid nationalism, you of
course
> >may
> > >and that
> > >is your right. I do find its premise that some parties do inflate
> numbers
> > >to try to
> > >get press for their point of view a correct assessment.
> > >
> > >Have a good day.
> > >
> > >Best regards,
> > >Vern
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 01 Apr 2003 14:53:54 +0300, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
said:
> > > >
> > > > I am sure some here will find this of interest.
> > > >
> > >
> > >Not really. Only the blind, or those who don't wish to see,
> > >can have failed to realize that the opposition to the assault
> > >on Iraq has a constituency far wider, and deeper, than the
> > >so called 'usual suspects' of 'Lefties', 'pinkos',
> > >'Arab-lovers', 'pro-Castro'.
> > >
> > >Perhaps if you can put a sustainable argument, Vern, which
> > >doesn't just look like some form of rabid nationalism. Then
> > >you wouldn't need to rely so much, as Leo, on smearing the
> > >opposition?
> > >
> > >
> > > > Vern
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Culture & Ideas 3/31/03
> > > > By John Leo
> > > > The truth about casualties
> > > >
> > > > Even if civilian casualties in Iraq are light, expect a great deal
of
> >
> ><snip>
> >
> > >--
> > >Andrew Preston
>
>
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