Hello Bruce Thanks very much for this, and for the references. The second one I had, but not the other two. Needs some study, and I have to do a bit more exploring.
> Alexander Noack of Elsbett made the same statement to me >regarding the lubricating oil contamination problems when using >soybean SVO. (We were discussing only SVO so I am not sure if he >also meant to imply soybean based Biodiesel as well.) I did some >research on the lubrication oil contamination issue and >polymerization issue and the following links may be helpful: >http://www.missouri.edu/~pavt0689/Research_Needs_Resulting.pdf >http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/reportsdatabase/reports/gen/199909 >02_gen-228.pdf >http://www.me.iastate.edu/biodiesel/Pages/biodiesel21.html > > The vegetable-based lubricating oil that is referred to, is >mandatory to use in Elsbett converted engines, according to the >Elsbett instructions. However, this lubricating oil, made by Fuchs, >is not sold in the U.S. so this poses a problem. However, I have >not been able, so far, to find any other Elsbett customers in the >U.S. who seem concerned by this. How about synthetic oil? Thanks again Best wishes Keith > Bruce Colley, Sustainable Energy Project >http://www.sustainableenergyproject.org > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Keith Addison > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 4:09 PM > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Diesel VWs: High Mileage Vehicles, Well Kept Secrets? > > > Hakan, MM > > >MM, > > > >You asked about VW, Europe and biodiesel. In Europe the VW diesels are > >certified for RME fuel (biodiesel). The are clearly stating that in the > >specifications. > > RME = Rapeseed Methyl Esters. They don't like soy biodiesel. It's > been thought that this is more political than anything else - Europe > grows rapeseed, the US grows soy. But biodiesel is biodiesel is > biodiesel. Which is what the EPA says with their "substantial > equivalence" for all feedstocks, although the NBB only tested virgin > soy biodiesel. But there could be more to it. Rachel Burton posted a > link to Lyle's site and her report on a recent SVO workshop with > Elsbett engineer Alexander Noack. It included this interesting bit: > > "Soybean oil is bad. Whether it is straight vegetable oil or soybean > based biodiesel. It is a no-go in diesel engines. Why? In diesel > engines you have slight mixing between fuel and lubricating oil. > There is a fuel property in soybean oil that makes it reactive when > in contact with engine lubricating oil. It supposedly has a > polymerizing action with the engine oil, which is detrimental to the > life of your lubricating system. What they do in Europe is use a > vegetable-based lubricating oil for the engine to prevent any > problems with fuel-lubricating oil intimacy. What else? They do not > use soybean oil; They use rape seed also known as canola." > http://www.biofuels.coop/blog/archives/000066.html > Energy Blog: Elsbett Workshop > > Slightly different, but if you have a look at the new Euro standard > for biodiesel, here: > > National standards for biodiesel > http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield2.html#biodstds > > See "Europe EN 14214", scroll down to "Oxidation stability hrs; 110¡C > - 6 hours min". Only Europe has such a standard, and the concern is > polymerisation due to oxidation. The Iodine No. standard is <120; > others are lower, but the US ASTM D-6751 doesn't specify an IV. The > higher the IV the more it's a drying oil that will polymerise, the > highest being linseed and fish oil and the lowest coconut and palm > kernel. For an explanation see: > > Iodine Values > http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html#iodine > > So have a look at these Iodine Values: > > Rapeseed oil, h. eruc. - 97 to 105 > Rapeseed oil, i. eruc. - 110 to 115 > Soybean oil - 125 to 1 > > So. I think there's some substance to this, I'll find out more soon. > Meeting the German or Austrian standard isn't difficult, but the Euro > standard might be, especially if we think bubblewashing is a great > idea. Might have to drop bubblewashing, go for simple stirring > instead (and making the stuff properly in the first place). Might > have to use an additive as well. And, might have to drop soy too. > Something tells me the ASTM standard isn't about to adopt these Euro > oxidation limits any time soon. > > Anyway, both VW and Mercedes seem to be going for Fischer Tropsch > diesel from biomass. Perhaps the reason they prefer it to biodiesel > might be that it gives them a nice industrial, high-tech, expensive > operation to invest in, well beyond the reach of this shabby > riff-raff that's taken to making biodiesel in their garages and now > the whole thing's right out of corporate control. :-) > > Best > > Keith > > > >Hakan > > > >At 20:16 19/05/2004, you wrote: > > >I have collected four testimonials to high-mileage VW Diesels that > >came up in > > >discussion. I have seen many such testimonials over the years, >but I have > > >been > > >meaning to make a few points in response to them. These came up > >recently, in > > >response to reports that the two gasoline hybrids have not been >getting as > > >good > > >mileage as they advertise. My comments are below the four testimonials. > > > > > <snip> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Yahoo! 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