One of the nice things about diesel fuel is it doesn't burn very well unless under high compression making it very safe compared to gasoline. I would assume biodiesel would have the same properties. Also Diesel is an oil rather then a solvent which is why diesel engines last a lot longer.
- bfn - JAW [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >>>Thank you very much for your response Arlos. I'm new to the biofuel >>>"scene" and I find it quite disturbing that fire suppression and >>>avoidance isn't more talked about. >> >>Fire risk is a major reason for the emphasis on closed processors, >>also on TEFC pumps and stirrer motors. See: >> >>Hazards >>http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html#haz >> >>Best >> >>Keith >>Is this even much of a concern with storing biodiesel? I know that > > methanlo and methoxide are highly flammable, but as Arlos said, you need > to bring a chemical up to its flashpoint to burn it, with biodiesel this > is more than 300*F isn't it? You'd have ahrd time getting that kind of > a temp in your yard or garage. The only way I see that you could > actually have aproblem is if you ahd a small fire, say an electric fire > or trash fire and it involved some other materials and stared licking at > your tank. In that case it would burn very hot and would be hard to > extinguish. I did a similar experiment with WVO last fall. I was > building a fire in my fire pit with my brother and a friend of mine. We > tried to light the WVO directly with a match, even with a burning stick, > no luck, but when the fire got up to temp. it started burning the WVO > that had spilled on the pebbles. It burned very hot and even > explosively until all the oil was consumed. So I think it would > probably be wise to find out what the fire marshall has to say about > storage opf biodiesel or even fossil diesel. There has to be some good > way to put this type of fire out. Most importantly, it would seem like, > we should keep all fuels, biofuels or otherwise away from all possible > sources of ignition. > >>>Again I really appreciate your response. I didn't figure that I >>>would get more then a few lines from a couple of different people on >>>this subject. >>> >>>--adam >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Arlos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 7:21 AM >>>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >>>Subject: RE: [biofuel] Diesel fire suppression >>> >>> >>>Adam, >>> >>>Do a search for MSDS (Material Safety and Data Sheet) This will list the >>>flash point vapor pressure, and recommended fire suppression media. In >>>the case of one MSDS, it was noted that foam (AFFF), dry chemical and >>>CO2 were recommended. >>> As a former fire fighter, you have to have enough fire suppression >>>material on hand but the best advice, is get out and call 911 because no >>>amount of material wealth is worth losing your life over fighting a >>>fire. If you store your finish product in a steel drum, that needs to >>>have a bonded ground connection. Static protection is a good idea anyway >>>with working around the storage or making of bio-diesel. If your 200 L >>>is stored with a fire resistant lid (hopefully) then the next problem is >>>storage in an area where there is a source of combustion (other >>>flammables, ignition source point such as hot work equipment like >>>welding, drill motors, grinding equipment. Have a fire resistant oily >>>rag can with a spring lid. >>> Answering exactly how much fire fighting media is need depends on >>>several points. Did a fire occur when the 200 L has spilled and has >>>involved other types of combustibles as in a wooded floor, out door near >>>dry grass or brush, curtains, furnishing, paper. Is the weather a factor >>>such as wind, humidity and temp. Is your fire contained within a drum >>>only? Is it in an enclosed area, open area outdoor, under an overhang, >>>under a tree? In the best case, you can extinguish a self contained >>>fire by placing a lid on the container. Gas and petroleum fires are >>>fought by containing the source and laying on a blanket of oxygen >>>reducing foam Small multi class fire extinguishers have a limited amount >>>of material and should be checked annually as some dry chemicals will >>>cake during long storage they are not a good choice outdoors as the >>>wrong use can actually spread flames.One of the first things a fire >>>fighter learns is the term, "Put the wet stuff on the red stuff.". Water >>>is the number one choice for firefighting because it's cheap, available >>>and easy to transport. Water may or may not be a good choice because it >>>can actually help to spread flames. Water is used to cool a fire below >>>the flash point. Remember only a gas burns, not a liquid or a solid. >>>Only when a material is heated will it release a gas that actually >>>burns, not the material. This is the same for fluids. A garden hose will >>>deliver between 3-7 gallons per minute which is just enough to push a >>>good fire around, not put it out, Foams are mixed with water because >>>they will blanket the fuel and cool the flash point. There are several >>>commercial systems like Ansel available if you store fuel in a secure >>>area. The most serious consideration in a bio-diesel fire are the by- >>>products of combustion. This has to be considered. In an enclosed area >>>the rapid lack of available breathable air is the single biggest factor >>>in your survival during a fire. People generally succumb to respiration >>>issues due to toxic substances. >>> The best thing to do is have a plan, including the layout of your >>>storage area, utility shut offs, evacuation route, first aid kit. Your >>>fire may happen in the middle of the night and the fire dept needs to >>>know where you've stored it if it is in a building. You won't be doing >>>your best thinking at 3AM so be prepared. Also have a spill kit to >>>contain and absorb any spills to aid in preventing a larger fire >>>potential. Run through a fire drill several times and make sure others >>>beside you know exactly what you're up to out in the garage at night >>>brewing bio-diesel. The 5 P's save lives-Proper Planning Prevents Poor >>>Performance.. Ok so this sounds like preaching but if you've ever seen >>>someone terribly burned in a fire, you'd understand.. One last thing.. >>>don't be a dead hero, call the fire dept in the event of a fire.. If >>>fact pre-empt them and call and ask the same question, How do I fight a >>>bio-diesel fire. They are not there to shut down your operation but >>>would be helpful in setting up a safety program for you. >>> >>>Arlos >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Hunt, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 2:11 AM >>>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >>>Subject: [biofuel] Diesel fire suppression >>> >>>What is the recommended fire suppressant for diesel fires? I am >>>thinking about what type of safety system would be used around a >200L >>>batch processor. >>> >>>--adam >> >> >> >> >> >>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >>Biofuels list archives: >>http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ >> >>Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >>To unsubscribe, send an email to: >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! 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