blah, blah, blah, blah Can you two take this offline? Just going over this on the list in my book is spam.
BTW, I utmost respect for both of you. Just this kind of list infighting should be between poster and moderator, not for the general public. Thanks, James On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, Keith Addison wrote: > >I'm reversing the order of messages here, so that it is obvious to > everyone > >what I"m talking about in my reply. so the latest is at the bottom... > > > >Mark > > Something else that's generally accepted as good Netiquette and is > required on many lists is in-line responses. Eg, "There's no way to > build a threaded discussion with top-posting. Top-posting severely > inhibits others from understanding the conversation, because the > context of the conversation is out of order, as in broken." Same > thing with bottom posting. But I see your point - if you'd written > this as an inline response it would have looked nonsensical. Which it > is. > > All too predictable, and indeed predicted, sad to say, though I did > hope for better. But I didn't hold my breath either. > > Same as last time, eh? - with that disgraceful episode at the > Biodiesel list a few months ago. You didn't want a flame war, while > pouring gasoline on it. I told you this, a couple of times, among > several other things: > > >Let me try it again, probably no use but still: "If you want a > >fight, you can count me out, I'm not interested. If you'd prefer > >peace, great, so would I. But that means even-handedness." > > You weren't interested. You twisted a LOT of things right out of > shape, distorted a lot of things, and said a lot of things that were > blatantly untrue. Confronted with incontrovertible evidence that it > was untrue, you ignored it and pressed ahead anyway. > > Now you've posted this stuff at the Biodiesel list, and to the > Wastewatts group, and heaven knows where else. Why would that be I > wonder? Trying to cause max damage? Or to drum up support on > dysfunctional lists where all the trolls can have a field day? As > they now are. LOL! Are you to be judged by the "support" you're > getting? You know damn' well Dana Linscott's telling a pack of > malicious lies about the Biofuel list and Journey to Forever, twice > now, are you going to counter him? So is Jerry Dycus. Want me to > prove it? > > Anyway, sorry, NOT the same as last time. There are standards here > and they're upheld. > > See below. > > > > >********************** > > >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "bioveging" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >wrote: > > > > All this came about by following your recommendations and hints, > >G Mark. > >(snip) > > > > > > > > > > > > >I then wrote: > > >Hey, thank you very much for the kind words, but it's not just me who > > >designed that system by any stretch. Lots and lots of people's ideas > > >have been creeping into the water heater processor design and helping > > >it evolve, and that's why you should also add to it by posting your > > >own photos in the veggieavenger.com open-source biodiesel equipment > > >forum, to add to the general knowledge (or even post descriptions if > > >you dont have a camera). > > > Thanks for the positive feedback anyway, even though it should go > >out > > >to everybody who contributed! I really hope the other people who have > > >contributed realise how much their contributions have helped > > >newcomers. > > > > > >mark > >************** > >then Keith Addison wrote: > > > >At 10:27 PM 8/23/2004 +0000, you wrote: > > >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >Mark > > > > > >You're not a newcomer to Internet forums, and I'm sure you know that > > >it's very bad Netiquette to post messages to one forum promoting > > >another. That's generally accepted as a no-no and the online > > >resources on Netiquette are quite clear about it. There are quite a > > >few lists where doing that will get you instantly banned. At the very > > >least you should ask first. > > > > > >You've now done this here repeatedly. Of course it's okay to point to > > >a particular item at another forum if it's of relevance to a > > >discussion, but this is outright promotion, which is not okay at all. > > >Not only that, you've more or less demanded that I put the thing on > > >Journey to Forever. You'd already asked me that three times offlist > > >and didn't get a response. Quite obviously that WAS the response - > > >you think I didn't notice or something? Three times? I'm not exactly > > >famous for not noticing such things. So you bring it onlist? > > > > > > >Keith, please add to my Appleseed article that you have posted on > > > >journeytoforever, the link to the original material that it's > derived > > >from: > > > >www.veggieavenger.com/media or at least a link to the Appleseed > > >thread on > > > >veggieavenger.com/media . I'm planning on cleaning up that thread > > >pretty > > > >soon here so it'll be more legible. > > > > > >Anyway, it didn't come from veggieavenger.com, it came from a piece > > >you wrote for Homepower, or so you said at the time. And also from > > >your 'zine. Whatever, I've my own good reasons for not doing so and > > >I'm not about to defend them to you, nor to anybody. You certainly > > >shouldn't have raised it here. > > > > > >As for your pushing people to post info and pics about their > > >processors there, and all this stuff about "Open Source homebrew > > >equipment" and so on, the Biofuel list and Journey to Forever have > > >been doing that for a long time, rather adequately, and I see > > >absolutely no need or benefit in taking it somewhere else. Let it > > >happen as it will, naturally and of its own accord, no problem - but > > >stop touting for it. > > > > > >Previous from me, onlist, to you: > > > > > > >That said, we've been at least as much as anyone else at the > > > >forefront of open-source technology development and its basic > > > >philosophy of sharing - it's exactly why we started the Biofuel list > > > >in the first place four and half years ago. We constantly > > > >acknowledge it and we're kind of tireless in promoting it, one > > > >reason for that being that it works so well. > > > > > >The very term "open source" in connection with biofuels technology > > >was first mentioned here. > > > > > >But we've discussed all this before, haven't we? > > > > > >Keith Addison > > >Journey to Forever > > >http://journeytoforever.org/ > > >Biofuel list owner > > > >********* > > > >Then my response below, specifically about the authorship and > attribution > >issues: > > > >Keith, > > Two things here - one, your material at Journey to Forever, the > other, veggieavenger. First, veggieavenger... > > >I would like you to remove my article about the Appleseed processor from > >the journeytoforever site, unless you add the proper attribution which I > as > >the author ask for, to the material's home website, > >www.veggieavenger.com/media . Other people's articles at > journeytoforever > >(dale scroggins' for instance) contain the home URL of the original > site, > >what is wrong with veggieavenger?. It's one of the most apolitical, > >nonpartisan forums in online biodiesel, it's populated by your fans, and > it > >provides a service that something the size of yahoo biofuel list cannot > (ie > >photo files hosting). There is nothing wrong with it. > > Who said there was anything wrong with it? Make sure you answer this > question, and don't obfuscate - where did I say or imply that there > is anything wrong with veggieavenger? Stick to what was said, don't > twist it, don't try any stuff like "what you obviously meant was...", > don't try to put words in my mouth. > > My email to you had nothing whatsoever to do with the pro's and cons > of veggieavenger, and your trying to refocus it on that is a > deliberate red herring. I made it clear that I have no objection to > veggieavenger: > > >Let it > > >happen as it will, naturally and of its own accord, no problem - but > > >stop touting for it. > > It's TOTALLY clear that my complaint was purely about your relentless > promoting of it here. > > >It's a photo resource > >more than a discussion forum, it's not a competitor to the biofuel list, > > Trust you to think that way (and Linscott with you) - like you did > previously and put your foot in it. > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/36882/ > > More than a month ago, and you still haven't replied to it. Nor to > another message you may have found embarrassing. That is not > acceptable behaviour here - when you attack someone and accuse them > of things and they refute your accusations you don't just pretend it > didn't happen, that's hit-and-run. You can reply to it now. And no, > not just because it was me - if it had been another member I'd've > told you to do it straight away, not just let it slide. > > >and it's basically been my home page (though it's not my site) until > >recently. As the author I don't see the reason for being denied the > proper > >attribution of the source material in my journeytoforever.org article. > > Proper attribution? Well, we'll see. > > >Although I don't bother to keep all emails I send back and forth, I dont > >think that the Appleseed material that is posted at your site came from > my > >proposed Home Power article, because it preceded the Home Power piece by > >many months. I think you're remembering wrong. > > I'm not remembering, I don't have to. > > >The article you posted at > >journeytoforever.org also is nothing like what has been in my book/zine > >until recently- the only Appleseed material I had in my book until this > May > >was a sketch and a parts list. > > > > I remember writing up a one-sheet parts list/sketch for my 'table' at > >Green Festival last year (early November). I asked William of > >veggieavenger.com to add a photo upload feature to his site, and I > posted > >the full info at to this veggieavenger.com forum in late November of > >last year. > > > > At the Green Festival, a couple of the Home Power editors saw the > >one-sheet and they asked that I turn the one-sheet parts list into an > >article. I did not write an article for them until late spring of this > >year. However, you posted the journeytoforever version much earlier than > >that, in December I believe, and the journeytoforever and home power > >materials do not in any way resemble each other. Little of the material > at > >journeytoforever.com appleseed article was found at the original > one-sheet > >(which I don't even know whether you have seen until recently). However, > >most of it is word-for-word identical to the veggieavenger.com forum > >article that I wrote in November. > > Other way round. > > > The journeytoforever.org article contains material that is identical > to > >my veggieavenger thread- the question about how to extract the dip tube, > >the link to water heater construction, etc, the photos of the ladies > >extracting the dip tube, etc, all of these are not in my book, nor are > they > >in the home power article that I submitted- they are in fact found no > >where, in print or online, other than in the veggieavenger.com/media > >thread, and at the journeytoforever.org article that you compiled from > the > >thread. > > Nope. See below. > > > I think the other obscure and probably somewhat irrelevalt history was > >that I sent you the simple sketches (and someone else's 3-d computer > >rendering) before that November festival, as a suggestion for a some-day > >article for jtf or something like that (I occasionally sent to Keith and > to > >others, various drafts of material-in-progress for commentary). I may > have > >perhaps mentioned Home Power as a brainstorm idea on someplace to > publish > >the plans. As these sketches were quite incomplete you were dissatisfied > >with them (there was some discussion of why aren't there good photos in > >existence, and that the material needed more work), which was fine. > > YOU were dissatisfied with them, not me - "preliminary chicken > scratches", you called them, and the other problem was that your > computer wasn't working properly and despite repeated attempts you > weren't able to send me photographs at the time. See below. > > > But later once the Appleseed thread was posted, you posted an > article > >at journeytoforever, taken directly from the veggieavenger posts. > > Not so, you offered it to me before it was posted at veggieavenger. > Well, I don't know when you started posting stuff there, but you > offered it to me independently of veggieavenger, I did not get it > from there, I got it from you, and no way was it made in any way > provisional on anything to do with veggieavenger, neither then nor > later. > > >That's > >fine- if it includes a link to the source. I work hard to promote this > >forum (even though it's not even my own website) and I as the author > want > >to include a link to the more up-do-date material that users post there. > I > >keep finding that people who have only seen the journeytoforever > article, > >which is somewhat incomplete, end up 'reinventing the wheel' and asking > >questions on various forums that could have been answered had they > followed > >the link to the other material (ie about pump priming for example). > > > > But there was no text ever sent to you in either a zine form or as > a > >separate article, anywhere near resembling the original article you > posted > >(I think I did send out the 'how to use the appleseed' material more > >recently, but that's a recent addition) > > You only made the veggieavenger request AFTER that recent addition > was already uploaded, and it was NOT a request to credit > veggieavenger as the source. It was simply a request to add a link to > veggieavenger, no mention of attribution, which would have been > preposterous as no material was derived from there. There was no > confusion or ambiguity about this, you've only introduced this whole > attribution idea now, and it's entirely baseless. It's just a ploy. > > That recent addition was in a Home Power article you sent me, and > it's in your 'zine, which you also sent me. As I said. See below for > full details. > > > If you do not want to post the source material link, which I > >personally think helps people and simply compliments the processor > >resources at journeytoforever rather than detracting from it (for > instance > >because the biofuel list, nor most forums, doesn't let users post > photos), > >then please take the article down from the journeytoforever.org site- I > do > >not want material that I have authored, posted someplace, incomplete, > >against my wishes. > > :-) Oh, really? > > >I also think that my washing articles are outdated and > >as part of this would like them taken down from journeytoforever, as I > >doubt that you would upload an updated version from me. > > Why do you doubt that? I've always done so in the past, as indeed > with the Appleseed update at the beginning of June. That's not > "usually", or "sometimes", it's ALWAYS - every time. > > > I don't care about the occasional other lists-based material that is > >attributed to me (ie safety stuff, industrial biodiesel quality problems > >quotes, etc)- but no author likes to lose control of his material to a > >website, and if you are unwilling to work with me on my material, don't > >publish my work on your site. Give it full attribution or take it down. > > Is that an ultimatum? > > >Mark > > > > >--- End forwarded message --- > > By the way, in the circumstances, having just been told by the list > owner to stop spamming other groups, this sig is impudent: > > >********* > >www.LocalB100.com > > > >www.veggieavenger.com/media - open-design homebrew biodiesel > >equipment plans > > > >www.groups.yahoo.com/group/local-b100-biz -biodiesel co-ops and > >biodiesel small business discussion forum > > > >www.groups.yahoo.com/group/biodieselbasics -the alternative Yahoo > >biodiesel list > > Remove it next time or your post will be stopped. > > Right, so let's have a real look at all this nonsense, as that's all it > is. > > It started long ago when you wanted to have your "Cheapass Weldless > Processor" plans uploaded to JtF, and I agreed, but it never happened. > > Your "Bubblewashing 101" piece did happen. > > Then you proposed this, and I agreed, but it didn't happen. > > >7 Oct 2003 > >I want to edit up my anti-plastic-processor post to > >Biofuel and submit it to you for Journeytoforever > >)with biosmell's photos of onbe of the plastic > >processor fire meltdowns, or at least have him send > >you photos of the meltdown for some use or another)... > >mark > > This was next: > > >14 Nov 2003 > >Enclosed are some preliminary chicken scratches of the > >water heater processor. I thought it'd be OK for > >Veggieavenger because many of the locals have seen it > >in action already, but I'm worried about confusing the > >wider internet community... > >Some of the raw material for the plans is attached... > >mark > > > >parts list > >LABELED PROCESSOR.JPG > > So in fact you offered it to me while apparently still considering it > for Veggieavenger, and I accepted it. > > You also promised better graphics, and then sent me some graphics. > But they got mangled in transit and I couldn't open half of them > because you were having transmission problems at the time (you > offered to send me a CD, but never did so). No further mention of > Veggieavenger, but I think you had posted some stuff there. You made > no suggestion at any time that JtF should credit Veggieavenger, as > there was no basis for that - Veggieavenger was not the source, you > were. > > I corrected the copy you'd sent me and returned it to you for > approval, and on 11 Nov 2003 I uploaded the article to the site with > enough info and pics to be going on with, and asked you to check it > before I released it. Also: > > > Will you take lots of nice piccies at > > the Los Angeles > > area biodiesel meeting processor build tomorrow? > > That'd help. Upload > > them to the veggie avenger site and I can pick them > > up from there, if > > you think that's okay, or maybe use this site and > > send me the url: > > http://www.imagestation.com/member/join_upload.html > > Your response: > > >Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:57:27 -0800 (PST) > >From: girl Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: Re: Processor upload > >To: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Bravo, wonderful, release it. Yay, thank you! finally! > > With a promise of more pics, no mention of veggieavenger, and no > reply to my question about getting pics of yours from there because > of your transmission problems. > > On 27 Nov 2003 you wrote: > > >Hi Keith, > >I finally got around to editing out the photos in the > >veggieavenger thread, just a little. They're cropped > >and have more info, I believe. I still need to sit > >down and turn it all into more of an article. But > >depending on how much of a pain in the ass it is for > >you to add them to the JtoF article, there's a new > >visual or two on the thread... and I tried to add more > >(the stuff I tried to send you I think, of processor > >under construction, which is useful visuals) but ran > >into more issues with format and 'what veggieavenger > >reads as how' and more of the portability of files > >issue that's ruling my life right now. > > So in fact your only interest in veggieavenger vis-a-vis JtF was in > using it as a way-station, a means of getting me better pics because > of your computer problems - NOTHING about crediting veggieavenger, > nor any basis for such a thing. Not quite the way you "remember" it, > eh? > > Nothing further happened until this: > > >Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:09:41 -0700 > >To: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >From: girl mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: Re: What you're doing is DANGEROUS! > > > >by the way I finally have the water heater reactor article finished. > >Might be a great launch time for it. > > > >Mark > > I agreed: > > >It might indeed. Want to send it to me? > > > >Keith > > You: > > >Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 11:38:33 -0700 > >To: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >From: girl mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: Re: What you're doing is DANGEROUS! > > > >yes... > > You referred me to www.veggieavenger.com/media to obtain pictures, > but still made no mention of crediting veggieavenger, since there was > nothing to be attributed to them. I responded, but didn't hear > anymore from you until this: > > >Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2004 00:17:02 -0700 > >To: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >From: girl mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: Re: How to use the Appleseed water heater reactor > > > >... I just worked on changing the article for Home Power, dumbed it > >down and added an anti-readymade spin on it, and am waiting to see > >if they'll accept it (enclosed, please dont' print yet, I';ll do a > >different version for you regardless of the outcome). > > > > I still don't have a good version for the web (they'll be pretty > >different, with the Web one more detailed than a magazine one. It's > >three articles in the zine and they need serious editing as usual. > >Blarggh!!! I'm a plumber, not a writer, dammit), and I still haven't > >done the painful and time-consuming labeling of the graphic so it > >can be posted on the web (ie it's in pen and ink in the zine > >version, but I can't just scan that in for the web, it'll be > >illegible). > > > >I't's my next writing project though since I've been promising it to > >everyone on the lists. The how-to I just sent out to the lists (on > >using the Appleseed thing, as well as the methoxide industrial photo > >shoot) is the beginning of that though, feel free to add the how-to > >to the $150 fumeless article if you think it's worth it. There's a > >bit of a difference because of the additional sight tube in the > >Appleseed, but people might get the general idea and precautions. > > You also sent me a new photograph, and followed with another message > with more photographs in the attachment. You'd posted "How to use the > Appleseed water heater reactor" to the Biofuel list, the Biodiesel > list and Burnveggies the day before, maybe you posted it at > veggieavenger too that day, I don't know. Anyway, that and some other > material were part of the Home Power article that followed your > message, and that's what I used. I sent you a draft of the edited > text on 5 Jun 2004, you returned it okay'ed. On 6 Jun 2004 you sent > me two more photographs of the plumbing details. On 11 Jun 2004 I > uploaded your new material and sent it to you for checking before > releasing it. > > Your reply: > > >Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 19:45:10 -0700 > >To: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >From: girl mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: Re: How to use the Appleseed water heater reactor > > > >thank you very much for updating that, it looks great. Could you > >include something about the "www.veggieavenger.com/media 'the > >open-source' biodiesel equipment photo forum?" on there? > > > >Mark > > First mention - and PLEASE NOTE THAT YOU DID NOT ASK FOR IT AS A > CREDIT, since, as I said, the material did NOT come from > veggieavenger, as should now be abundantly clear. > > Second mention, five emails from you later: > > >Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:58:15 -0700 > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >From: girl mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: oh and... > > > >oh and, could you add, in the appleseed stuff, a link to the > >veggieavenger.com equipment discussion photo forum? > > > >www.veggieavenger.com/media > > Still no mention of it as a "credit" - you were NOT asking for a > credit, you were asking me to add a link to veggieavenger, without > even saying why. That is not crediting it,that is promoting it. > Whether or not I add links to Journey to Forever is entirely my > business and has NOTHING to do with the attribution of articles > posted at Journey to Forever, since nothing on JtF comes from > veggieavenger. The sole exception is some of the photographs on the > "Appleseed" page, and the only reason for that is that you'd failed > to send them to me the usual way, after repeated attempts. And I > don't think they're even there anymore -m aybe the dip tube one > (which you offered me). > > So this is wrong: > > > But later once the Appleseed thread was posted, you posted an > article > >at journeytoforever, taken directly from the veggieavenger posts. > > Not so. > > And this is what the Brits call a right load of old bollocks: > > >I would like you to remove my article about the Appleseed processor from > >the journeytoforever site, unless you add the proper attribution which I > as > >the author ask for, to the material's home website, > >www.veggieavenger.com/media . Other people's articles at > journeytoforever > >(dale scroggins' for instance) contain the home URL of the original > site, > >what is wrong with veggieavenger?. It's one of the most apolitical, > >nonpartisan forums in online biodiesel, it's populated by your fans, and > it > >provides a service that something the size of yahoo biofuel list cannot > (ie > >photo files hosting). There is nothing wrong with it. It's a photo > resource > >more than a discussion forum, it's not a competitor to the biofuel list, > >and it's basically been my home page (though it's not my site) until > >recently. As the author I don't see the reason for being denied the > proper > >attribution of the source material in my journeytoforever.org article. > > Your material at Journey to Forever, as always, in all cases, is > correctly attributed to the source, you, and this was approved by > you, twice. > > More complete bollocks: > > > If you do not want to post the source material link, which I > >personally think helps people and simply compliments the processor > >resources at journeytoforever rather than detracting from it (for > instance > >because the biofuel list, nor most forums, doesn't let users post > photos), > >then please take the article down from the journeytoforever.org site- I > do > >not want material that I have authored, posted someplace, incomplete, > >against my wishes... but no author likes to lose control of his material > to a > >website, and if you are unwilling to work with me on my material, don't > >publish my work on your site. Give it full attribution or take it down. > > Against your wishes? Lose control of your material to a website? Not > willing to work with you on your material? The string of emails above > (there's plenty more where that came from) would indicate otherwise. > > You have two options: either you can accuse me of falsifying the > records I've reproduced above, in which case I'd strongly advise you > to abandon your usual style of shooting from the hip (and missing) > and to make very sure that you can prove it (because I can), or you > can apologise for this nonsense and withdraw it. Simply ignoring it, > as you usually do when your shots miss, is not an option. > > Further: once you have offered material you've produced to a > publisher and had it accepted, even more so when you've approved the > publication, in writing, before its release, and even more so when > it's correctly attributed and you've approved that too, its fate is > no longer your prerogative. To put it bluntly, whether your material > remains at Journey to Forever or not has nothing to do with you. You > can ask, you cannot demand. > > In fact, however, I've had growing misgivings about it, both the > processor stuff and the bubblewashing. There are too many > contradictions. I tried to sort some of them out at the processor > page recently but didn't get very far - a contradiction is a > contradiction after all. What you say about draining the glycerine > for one instance, what happens to it after that for another: "Use > carboys or buckets to drain the glycerol/soap/methanol byproduct. > Don't sniff it -- there is methanol present." > > Uh-huh? Yet when I uploaded our "Simple 5-gallon processor" page you > argued with me about it claiming it was dangerous: "But I don't like > the 'pouring off biodiesel' part. I have gotten serious methanol > exposure quite a few times doing this same thing (expecially with > warm biodiesel, which is much more fume-exuding than cold)." > > Not so, I said - it IS cold, for one thing, but you insisted: "I've > done my share of pouring off the biodiesel (and inhaling methanol, > therefore i"ve stopped doing this pouring). It's not a safe practice, > goes against the whole point of fumeless processors. Your face is > right there as you pour. I try pretty hard to hold my breath and I > still have gotten fumed this way. I've just stopped doing this " > > But it seems you haven't. Yet I recall your saying onlist that you > certainly didn't know what methanol fumes smelt like, you were much > to safety-conscious. You say one thing and do another? There are > other things, like this: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/36779/ > > And some of the stuff you were saying in that ridiculous fracas you > fomented at the Biodiesel list (I mean the last one, not the one > you've just started there). Which leaves a person wondering just what > it is that you teach people. > > Anyway, your "Bubblewashing 101" piece probably won't last too long > either, I doubt it will survive the next website updating, when I get > that far. > > You reckon you've been attacked now? You brought it on yourself by > trying to deflect attention from the original issue and by concocting > this preposterous nonsense that your stuff at JtF should be > attributed to veggieavenger. Straight dealing is always better Mark. > > Are you going to cross-post this too? Go ahead, I couldn't care less. > > Keith Addison > Journey to Forever > KYOTO Pref., Japan > http://journeytoforever.org/ > Biofuel list owner > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > click here > [rand=403105443] > > ________________________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
