Hello Peggy
You're serious? I guess you are. "Poetic essay..." Well, I suppose
"After action satisfaction" was poetic in it's way, pity about the
cancer though.
Hi Keith,
I never endorsed the writer of the essay or the content--but rather
commented on style and how he tried to build sentiment.
Ignoring the content? Some of the most obnoxious and damaging
material comes in very pretty packaging, with excellent style, highly
accomplished skills at building sentiment. It's called PR, as I said.
And worse. Much worse.
What I did say
was that I recognized the power of many people working for a common
goal. And your ability to assemble such an extensive bibliography as a
rebuttal to something that I did not ever endorse about political
atrocities is impressive.
Don't be too impressed, it's very easy and takes almost no time. But
I cannot accept your claim that you did not ever endorse it - just as
he did, you said nothing about it at all. When such issues are truly
central to what is being discussed, ignoring them is
indistinguishable from endorsing them. It absolutely required some
sort of disclaimer or proviso from you. That there was none and yet
you claim this is bizarre, IMO.
Did you read any of the "extensive bibliography", by the way? This
one, for instance?
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/35282/
I am not supporting any country or agenda. I
was actually commenting on the eloquence of the writer. He could have
been writing about a different planet. I was attempting to extract the
benefits of using the power of words as a thrust for emotion. This
narrative explained one man's viewpoint behind the people who built a
formidable entity that they call their nation. Understanding how peace
makers can also use this kind of energy to build a better global
consciousness can do a great good toward motivating the masses.
The same could be said of Goebbels' Principles of Propaganda, as the
PR industry knows very well, though to different ends.
And
surely many listers noticed the content of many emails during the last
several weeks have been more uplifting in content.
Perhaps you haven't been here long enough to have a true sense of the
list and what it really is and does.
I receive many
private emails from list members who contact me to say that they like my
input and positive impact and that they hope that I will stay active
with this list.
Keith, sharing good ideas can include appreciation of concepts without
hostilities--even in analyzing a previous detrimental action. And I
suppose that is part of what you intend with many of the post that can
shock delicate sensitivities. "In your face" can include a loving
kindness.
Pardon me Peggy, but: you don't say.
If you have a closer look at the delicate sensitivities you mention,
you'll find that the delicacy usually only goes in one direction,
seldom the other. They can dish it out, but they can't take it. If
you see an "in your face" hostility in what I write, it's in the eye
of the beholder. I'm not hostile, nor angry, I am direct and
straightforward, I won't pander to people, I won't go along with nice
pretences, I won't pay any obeisance to anyone's false sacred cows.
I'll be hostile when it's appropriate (yes, there are indeed times
when it's appropriate), and when that's the case I won't leave it in
any doubt at all.
I'm not quite understanding the "after action satisfaction"
Famous cigarette ad, Lexington I think.
nor the
current flare in your post. The real Journey to Forever is now and
perhaps, all the politics is not quite so important as finding solutions
to problems on individual, personal, and community levels.
Peggy, sorry, but you keep talking about what the *real* Journey to
Forever is, you're trying to tell me that??? Just recently you were
saying you were surprised we're not a huge conglomerate by now, which
showed very little understanding of what the real Journey to Forever
is.
By the way, one day when I was visiting with a cancer victim (perhaps
the one you sited), he lowered his head and said, "I don't understand
why this person in Japan took such a great dislike to me. I tried to
talk to him, but everything I said seemed to come back at me with a
vengeance." Well, I'm just reporting on the matter and not attaching
personal opinions since it was before I entered the scene. And
thank-you for later explaining your dissatisfaction with what you feel
was a person who took more than he gave back to the group.
It wasn't just my dissatisfaction, and I took some pains to ensure
that you wouldn't write it off as merely a personal clash, because it
wasn't that either. I said it was all in the archives, pity you
didn't have a better look, nor apparently check the links I provided.
Robert Warren is a memory-editor, he lies to himself. It's absolutely
no use pointing out that he said the exact opposite thing yesterday,
in public, and showing him the record, he'll edit that out too.
"People of the lie":
http://www.amasci.com/maglev/levbill1.html
The "Pathological Dishonesty" Disease
These people totally believe the current edition of their movie, and
of course such total conviction is convincing to others, on the
superficial level, until they do a little checking. People who are
both honest and thoughtful are seldom so convinced or sure of
themselves, free of all doubt.
I will say that Robert Warren lacks the viciousness and
vindictiveness that so often accompanies this behaviour, but he most
certainly is not to be believed. His behaviour at the Biofuel list
and subsequently in the way he sold "his" still (not his) was very
lacking in integrity.
My daughter tried to explain the philosophical concepts about motivation
through anger.
I'm not sure what this refers to. I'm certainly not motivated by
anger, I don't see much anger on the list, rare cases perhaps. Anger
is expensive stuff, to be used very sparingly, if at all, and with
great care to avoid backfiring and unforeseen side-effects.
It is a valid study in her Ph.D. program. However, I
will be so naive as to believe (and it is my belief) that people can't
stop war by hating war. People can only stop war by loving peace. To
me biofuels can be an olive branch for peace. The ability to capture
energy, store it, and use it for sustainability and creative purposes is
innate in biofuel production. I am not, nor will I endorse political
agendas. I will do my best to abide within local custom for living as
best I can within what I perceive as a reasonable world view.
And yes, the piece was poetry. The eloquence of the writer did not sway
me toward anything more than a well-written movie script about a
theoretical bonding of people. This should not be offensive.
You keep tempting me towards falling afoul of Godwin's Law. (How does
it differ from "Mein Kampf"?) As I said, it required essential
provisos.
Extracting the best of the article meant turning it around to apply the
concepts to building a universal goal--gathering the kind of emotion
that draws people together to live more appropriately.
While ignoring in (yes!) the most in-your-face manner the atrociously
inappropriate brutalities it glosses over.
And that is
exactly what I meant in my comment. Thanks for the email. I hope that
we all enjoy another great day on planet earth--tomorrow, and tomorrow,
and tomorrow.
Not all of us will, a sad reality - many will die horrible deaths,
many of them children, via the deeds, misdeeds and (benign?) neglect
of the too-powerful and those who live oh-so-comfortably and
heedlessly under their wing - and so often criticise those others of
us who protest and act to change it for being negative and disturbing
their peace.
Best wishes
Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
KYOTO Pref., Japan
http://journeytoforever.org/
Best wishes,
Peggy
>Hello Norman,
>
>Thank you for your post. The seasoned ability of the author to play at
>our human sensitivities is heartwarming. Irrespective of the eloquence
>of the writer, the most important realization after reading this
>narrative is the power of shared beliefs. As a cohesive group we, too,
>can also build a new world (nation, unity, or whatever you care to call
>the creative combined consciousness of those who believe in a Journey
to
>Forever) to build a future of right-minded goals. In analyzing the
>elements of the "What Israel Means to Me" document, we can, if we
>believe we can, also make a new future in a golden age of global
>existence, reduce pollution, live a satisfying and productive life, be
>without fear or physical need beyond our capacity to satisfy that
>sustaining need, and enjoy the world as a whole. The "What Israel
Means
>to Me" poetic essay can be adapted to apply to the very concerns of
this
>group.
Excepting that, at best, it omits about 99% of the reality of the
situation. It's just a gloss-over, cheapo PR puffery. I don't think
we do that here.
Whatever are you thinking of, Peggy? Don't you hear the truly
deafening silence in what he says about the Palestinians? He says
nothing about the Palestinians. Nothing! Unless this qualifies: "...
the unfinished, if undeniably complex, task of integrating Israeli
Arabs into the mainstream." And that's it. And no, it doesn't qualify.
[continued...]
Every day there are reports like this:
Gideon Levy: Suffer the little children :
In the present intifada, 323 Palestinian children under the age of
14 have been killed by Israeli Occupation Forces. Three recent
examples from Nablus
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/509222.html
What do you call that? A "challenge"? Downright strange idea of poetry.
As is recognized, there are always challenges, and the ability
to not overcome those challenges. Yet, to establish a firm new
productive civilization for the good of shared believers has been
represented on a national level in the article. Therefore, I greatly
appreciate the new focus many of many participants who are submitting
(for our mutual understanding a new focus in will-to-good) and
congratulate the efforts of those who give positive assistance,
recognize the efforts of beneficial action, and limit the here-to-fore
negativity that seemed to be a "one-ups-man-ship" on Who-done-who-wrong.
Golly gee, I replaced listening to laments with praise several decades
ago. And now the sharing of uplifting solutions seems to be making
headway in this forum. It is nice to have both sides of a coin
revealed. Thanks very much.
So maybe you'll propose an uplifting solution to all the
child-killings by the Israeli Occupation Forces then? How would you
class Rachel Corrie? - someone tyrying to give give positive
assistance via beneficial action, or just negativity and laments?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,916299,00.html
Rachel's war
Reality isn't always pretty stuff Peggy, recognising it and
acknowledging it isn't necesarily "negativity". Turning the other
way is though. You seem to be unaware of the very substantial
achievements of this list and its members over the last five years,
rather more substantial than just the negative whingeing that you
seem to see. You don't achieve any real solutions, uplifting or not,
by blind-eyeing the tough realities, though I'm sure the very tough
realities that oppose biofuels would just love us to do that.
As for this current crap by David A. Harris, it's all been debunked
here both often and thoroughly, and not only here. That's probably
why everyone ignored it, except you.
Have a look at what Israel means to Tanya Reinhart, much-published
Israeli professor (the Hebrew University, Jerusalem, and MIT),
author of "Israel/Palestine: How To End The War Of 1948". There's an
interview with her here:
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=50&ItemID=2595
Interview With Tanya Reinhart
She wrote this too:
http://zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=22&ItemID=1805
Jenin- The Propaganda War
Or what Israel means to Rabbi Weiss:
http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2003-08/26/article11.shtml
Zionism, Israel Threat to Peace
http://www.nkusa.org/activities/Speeches/nyc051404weiss.cfm
Declaration on 'Zionism and the State of Israel'
http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2004-05/02/article03.shtml
Jewish Historian Questions Israel Legitimacy
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/media/radio.htm
Jewish state is a grave violation of Jewish law.
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20020520&s=lerner
Jews for Justice
Or check out the "Oil and Israel" thread on the list in June in the
archives - start here:
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/35282/
Negative? Polyanna's a nice fairytale, if you like that kind of
thing, but that's all it is - not a good template for solving
real-world problems, especially not problems of the ilk of Oil and
Israel.
Hit "Click here for more on this subject" and read the rest.
Best wishes,
Peggy
Subject: What Israel Means to Me
A leading publisher has asked AJC Executive Director David A. Harris to
contribute a chapter to a forthcoming volume, What Israel Means to Me. I
am
pleased to share with you David's piece, which is below.
What Israel Means to Me
by
David A. Harris
Executive Director, American Jewish Committee
New York, November 30, 2004
<snip>
Try this rather, below.
Best
Keith
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/509222.html
Twighlight zone / Suffer the little children
By Gideon Levy
In the present intifada, 323 Palestinian children under the age of
14 have been killed by IDF fire. Three recent examples from Nablus
<snip>
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