Good day Luc.
If you and other list members would like to read something about BioD in a
group list (like this but with less frequent postings) but in Spanish you
may try Biogasoil (gasoil is more common to call around here, the diesel
fuel)
http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/biogasoil/
Some postings might be dealing with similar problems about BD but it has
less topics on Alternative Energy compared to the full spectrum found
here.
Atentamente,
Juan Boveda
Paraguay
-----Mensaje original-----
De: Legal Eagle [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Enviado el: Sabado 29 de Enero de 2005 6:34 PM
Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Asunto: Re: [Biofuel] Global poverty ,WSF and Brazil
G'day all;
How to energize the list with more "3rd world" input? Post in the local
language followed by an english translation where posible. Not everyone
speaks conversational English in written form, however this does not mean
that these individuals do not have very worthy things to say, just maybe a
little shy to take a whack at a foreign language they are not too familiar
with? Maybe ? At least that way those who do not understand English
fluently
will be able to benefit from posts in their own language. Might be a bit
of
a bother to those of us who do not speak Hindi or any number of languages,
but then with an attempt at translation we could at least get the point.
Luc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Global poverty ,WSF and Brazil
Greetings Pan
BRAZIL AND WORLD SOCIAL FORUM
Thank you very much for Keith for bringing here the important
event in south as only the north of the world alwayes get
importance .
Not to you, and not to me either, and we're not the only Southerners
here - and that doesn't mean Texas! LOL!
Very interesting post, as usual, Pan, thanks very much! There've been
other posts from you that were provocative and full of good ideas and I
wanted to respond more than I succeeded in doing. I hope we can focus on
some of the issues you've raised.
Important scientific personalities such as Da Silva ,Mukul
Sharma, Several political leaders such as Lula of Brazil , several
economic leaders who are devoted and dedicated their life to poor
from all over the world are coming together in WSF,world social forum.
Keith , this is very good news to know that this event has
unexpectedly become a global political and social phenomenon and will
be going to spread all the parts of the world as this an real
globalization of the wealth for all.
Yes, real globalisation. The mainstream (ie Northern) press, just as
they're so inclined to assume that if trade is "free" it must be "good"
(NOT!), so often labels people like us and the hugely diverse groups that
oppose the WTC and so on as "anti-globalisation". Yet I think all of
these
people are quite clear that they accept globalisation but not *corporate*
globalisation, a different and predatory animal. Being anti-globalisation
would be a foolish denial, it's simply a fact: the world is round, not
flat, and society is global, "One World". That has much more to do with
Marshall McLuhan's Global Village than with the neo-liberal
pseudo-economic cant and the pseudo-globalisation promoted by the WTC
etc.
The feeling here in Brazil is really looking for the new model of
economic , truly challenging US , showing another type of economic
model in future political one not the left , or right but the green
party
I think that feeling is now widespread.
We ,Brazilian feel that we can produce enough diesel and food for
the most part of the world as we have the largest lands that can be
cultivated are in the south , not in the north of G8 , but with G3,
the India , Africa and Brazil as the rich sorce of biocombustivel
and food for the world.
Yes.
Hence these G3 together is real threat not only the US but also the
G8.
To the powers-that-be, yes.
What is going to be economic war based on the fuel.As G8 will
always divide and rule G3, the WSF has the great green future not
make the war , but make peace for poor
Instead of super market oriented marketing and distribution , what
we need is an Ruralization of urban areas in G3 with distributed
energy and food based on biofuel
Energy and food... They have so much in common. I think it's one of the
things that differentiate this list, that we deal with subjects like this
here. When you start talking of decentralising the food supply or
decentralising the energy supply to the local level, as you're doing, it
soon becomes difficult to tell the one from the other.
We know about resource wars by now and about oil and militarism - see,
eg,
from quite an embarrassment of riches:
http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20050110/004788.html
[Biofuel] Oil politics trumps everything.
Compare with this:
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/20877/
Bushfood
The real threat for us in the south is the war , which only the
senators and political people of the US , spending huge amount of
money promote in the name of threat of fuel and food .
Surely the group members of our list need to unite all of the
world and make WSF , world social forum, a success.
The people who has no food has the same right to destroy the world
, not his home as we all are globally linked.
Sorry for not posting for the las 2 monts from here , as we had
serious virus problems with our computers due to the use of Internet
browser monopolised as the only one in the world
Sorry about that! Have you gone Linux?
The thin posting here, as Keith pointed out , I feel is lack of
main subject thread for debate and discussion such as biogas ethanol
form biomass, Diesel from wastes. etc
We need to depend posts on tecnical subjects and new informations.
For example,some thread for debate are: The best way to make methane
from solid wates, which are complex subject that need integration of
two process composting with bioconversion of methane .
But conventional composting will not do the job , then enzymatic one
is not practical on as Keith used point out the lab to
internationall articall only.What is the best way?
We also need here new information flow here ,as our list members are
really sleeping.
In our recent research study in internet that 7 kW flexivel
methane gas ,gasoline power cost is very low as 250 US dollars or 800
Brazilian reais.The cheap gasline motor or costlier diesel
generator.Which is the best way.
We need technical people knowlege brought here in this as this can
make debate more useful.
Thus inovations in electrical generations dc e ac can make the
small cogeneration project with low cost biogas and pre heated
used vegetable oil can be made possivel in a small scale.Yet this
subject need our list members debate .This can be real way to make
small power gweneration for the people , by the people to the people
And the list goes on and on, eh, Pan? We both know it, and others do too.
There is a division here, on this list perhaps as in the world. It's hard
to tell just who is in the majority of the list membership,
industrialised-country OECD members or people from the Global South.
Probably they're about the same. But the messages posted are
disproportionate - OECD members' posts heavily outnumber Southerners'
posts. The issues and interests represented are disproportionately those
of the industrialised countries - where there is widespread ignorance of
the issues you're discussing here. Yet by contrast Southerners are not
ignorant of the Northern issues.
I've thought for a long time that it's a false division - it HAS to be a
false division if the whole concept of One World has any reality! The
mere
fact that such a membership as this list's can exist on the global
Internet makes it a false division.
On the one hand, I don't think there's any reason why posts from
Westerners wanting to know where to buy their methanol or what's the best
way of getting WVO from the fast-food chains are how to qualify for the
Clean Air tax rebates or whatever - Northern issues - cannot go
hand-in-hand on the same list with discussion of truly global issues such
as those you mention, and the constraints you identify and others.
I'm all for a strong push to alter the focus here to include much more
discussion of real global/local issues, the issues affecting the Global
South, and for a much more prominent voice on the list of the Southern
members. Come on, speak up - it's for you that we started this list, not
for the rich countries, though everybody's welcome.
Have a look at this - scroll down to "Why make biofuels?":
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Biofuels: Journey to Forever
Local self-reliance, community empowerment - this is what Journey to
Forever is about, and what we said in the first place and several times
since is that Appropriate Technology for biofuels production is not much
different for a rural village in a 3rd World country than it is for a
backyard biodieseler in Europe or the US. Still true. One World - we've
more in common than what separates us.
.Let us all make the posting not as thin , but make it as big as
possible as we have the big foundation made it possssible.
I think so. Still, the posts aren't exactly thin - even at the current
lowish rate this list has more posts than all the other alt.energy lists
combined.
So how to set the ball rolling Pan? How do we encourage discussions of
the
threads you suggest, and others? How should we embark on this new
direction for 2005?
Best regards
Keith
We need the corect attuide , the foundation made very strong will
surely become much more in the coming days
sd
Pannir selvam P.V
Brazil
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 01:32:31 +0900, Keith Addison
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1398409,00.html
> Guardian Unlimited | The Guardian |
>
> Global poverty targeted as 100,000 gather in Brazil
>
> Activists join presidents as annual World Social Forum gets under way
> in Porto Alegre
>
> John Vidal in Porto Alegre
> Wednesday January 26, 2005
> The Guardian
>
> Elvis, Betu and Renatu live in a rubbish dump. Every day the
> teenagers take out their wire pushcarts, collect the waste of the
> southern Brazilian city of Porto Alegre and bring it back to the
> illegal slum of Chocolatado to sort and then sell on.
>
> It's a grim place, made of reclaimed tarpaulins, waste timber, old
> plastic and metal. None of the shacks have running water or toilets,
> and most of them are deep in litter.
>
> This, then, is the ideal backdrop for the launch today of the World
> Social Forum, which meets annually to discuss issues affecting
> developing countries.
>
> Begun five years ago specifically to counter the annual meeting of
> world business and political leaders in Davos, Switzerland, it has
> unexpectedly become a global political and social phenomenon.
>
> More than 100,000 activists will be in Porto Alegre this year. They
> will be joined by two presidents, several Nobel peace and literature
> prizewinners, the world's leading international non-government
> groups, healthworkers, MPs, educators, unions, students, the
> landless, indigenous peoples, intellectuals, environmentalists and
> dissident economists.
>
> "It's not perfect, but it is the most tangible global rejection of
> the neo-liberal globalisation policies of the US and G8 countries,"
> said Ricardo Jimenez, a Uruguyan doctor.
>
> "But it needs to be seen in context. More than 1 billion people in
> developing countries live in slums; 800 million go hungry every day;
> 27 million adults are slaves; 245 million children have to work. The
> poor are everywhere still getting poorer, the cities are
> disintegrating and bankrupt. It is a response to a global scandal."
>
> In other years there has been a video linkup between Davos and Porto
> Alegre, but this year the two worlds will stand further apart than
> ever, with no formal contact beyond accusations and petitions sent
> from Brazil.
>
> "Developing countries now owe $1.6 trillion [?860bn]. In 2004 they
> transferred $300bn to rich countries," said Eric Toussaint, chair of
> the Committee for the Abolition of Third World Debt. "Yet we can say
> that the people of the third world are creditors. They have already
> paid their debts many times over."
>
> The highlights of the forum will be the flying visit of the populist
> Brazilian president, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, and President Hugo
> Chavez of Venezuela. Both will address 30,000 people in Porto
> Alegre's main stadium, but the reception given to the two most
> charismatic South American leaders could be very different.
>
> Mr Da Silva is still popular but there is growing impatience at the
> slow speed of the radical reforms expected.
>
> According to many at the forum, Mr Chavez is increasingly the person
> to whom the continent looks for significant change. Significantly, Mr
> Da Silva will fly on to Davos for talks with world leaders after his
> Porto Alegre appearance, while Mr Chavez is expected to spend time in
> an encampment of the Brazilian landless.
>
> But people are still upbeat. "Analysts are talking of a new South
> America. There is a sense that this is the only con tinent now
> challenging the US," said Martin Fernandes, a Brazilian doctor.
>
> "There are now leftist presidents in Venezuela, Brazil and Argentina,
> as well as in Uruguay and Ecuador ... We have a sense that change is
> possible."
>
> The forum has been criticised in the past for not including
> marginalised peoples. But this year it has invited some of the
> poorest in the world, including dalits (untouchables) from Nepal,
> Bangladesh, India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka, former slave communities
> from Brazil, and more than 100 tribes of Brazilian Indians.
>
> It may also be the last forum for several years in Porto Alegre.
> "There has been a very strong proposal that, instead of one single
> event, the forum next year will take place simultaneously in six
> cities on six continents, with smaller events in many towns," said an
> international committee member, Mukul Sharma.
>
> "It would signal that the WSF is expanding and becoming a global
> force. It is also highly probable that in 2007 it will go to Africa
> for the first time."
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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>
> Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable):
> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
>
--
Pagandai V Pannirselvam
Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN
Departamento de Engenharia Quimica - DEQ
Centro de Tecnologia - CT
Programa de Pos Graduacao em Engenharia Quimica - PPGEQ
Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPEC
Av. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universitario
CEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil
Residence :
Av Odilon gome de lima, 2951,
Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102
Capim Macio
EP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - Brasil
Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 215-3770 Ramal20
2171557
Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 215-3770 Ramal20
2171557
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