Hi Steve >Hi Keith > ><<You're welcome. But don't abandon the ethanol idea, there could be >several ways of doing it on a minor scale that might be worthwhile, >and again outsourcing or cooperative deals could be the answer. I >think cheap drying is still the stumbling block (needs to be >anhydrous for ethyl esters, though not for fuel ethanol).>> > >I badly want to use ethanol for a zillion reasons - I definitely haven't >given up on it - I guess its practicalities that are rearing their ugly >heads at this early stage in my biz. On the subject of drying, I thought >fuel grade eth had to be dry - to prevent phase separation between water and >any gasoline that the eth could be blended with.
Two reasons for drying it: one, to make ethyl esters, two, to blend it with gasoline. If you don't want to do either of those, just chuck it in the tank, 180-proof's fine, even 160-proof's fine. 100-proof'll do if you use a water injection system. Well, as long as you've sorted the main jet and so on. >We tested fuel grade eth >from our biggest eth producer here in Aus (99.8% anhydrous, then denatured >with 1% petrol added by vol) - gave great separation. Just want to get them >to denature it with meth before we actually use it in bulk, that way when we >can make our own meth from waste wood we'll really be fossil free. Idaho said a bit of gasoline in the eth won't interfere with transesterification, and only 1% is much less fossil input than with meth - as you say, until you can make the meth yourself. But it's the price of the eth I guess. >Regarding separation, this is the only fragment I found suggests a seemingly >simple method (provided you have liq. notrogen handling skills/facilities); >http://wine1.sb.fsu.edu/chm1046/notes/SolnProp/Collig/Collig.htm >in particular the phrase; >"If an aqueous solution of ethanol is frozen, the water selectively freezes >as a pure substance and the ethanol (with a lower freezing point) is >squeezed out as pure ethanol." Would love feedback/thoughts on that one... It was discussed awhile back on the Biofuels list. Joe Martelle, who works in the GM labs, had this to say: "When I posted that the EtOH would act as an antifreeze and keep the water from freezing out of the solution I assumed we were talking high concentrations of alcohol and trying to make it anhydrous. Say good distillation gives you 190 proof ethanol (95%) freezing will not drop out the water. "I took 20mL of 95% EtOH and subjected it to -20 degrees C. for 30 minutes, then took it down to -30 deg. C for 30 minutes. No ice was formed in either instance. I did not feel it was necessary to go much colder than that, but I can if any one wants me to. "So, freezing is not a viable method of getting anhydrous EtOH for BioD production. I hope that answers your question, Robert. Cheers, Joe" It seemed it would work for wine or beer, but not high-proof. Have you seen these? Cornmeal Adsorber for Dehydrating Ethanol Vapors http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_grits.html Separating Ethanol From Water http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/eth_separate.html Absolute Alcohol Using Glycerine http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/Mariller.html The Manual for the Home and Farm Production of Alcohol Fuel by S.W. Mathewson Chapter 12 DRYING THE ALCOHOL General Description Absorption Methods Drying With Lime Azeotropic Methods http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual12.html Plus 3A zeolytes, usual commercial method. Had lots of reports of people checking out small-scale zeolytes, but no results yet. ><<if only we could find an easy/cheap way of purifying the glyc by-product >from biod>> > >In terms of money spent on equipment that should be pivotal to that >business' success, the equipment offered by Rescience (your link again! >Legend...) looks very cost-effective (we are on a biofuels - BIZ group, >no?). They offer a biodiesel makers specially-specced unit, and want >$75,000AUD ($31,000US) for a unit that will do 100 gallons an hour of any >solvent recycling - methanol/ethanol recovery from a BD/GLYC solution before >separation, pure glyc from the crude process biproduct, etc etc in a very >safe manner. They (Rescience) tell me they already sell these to BD makers >in Europe and the US. David Hollenback at U of Idaho, who gave me that info, said they'd found a used one for US$5,000. >I say cost-effective for two reasons. >a) At a $2,500AUD average market price per tonne for 99.5BP glycerine my >maths shows this will recoup very quickly, especially if I offer to bulk up >with other BD makers biproducts for a resonable rate. (We will eventually >oversupply the market and prices will have to fall - I have seen economic >news items stating that it already has due to Euro BD production.) But you'll have got your money back by then. >b) By way of comparison, it costs $250,000AUD + to buy the required >truck/trailer setup to compete in the Aus interstate freight game, only to >find that you'll return that investment over at least five years (but only >just...), but have to stay current so must update every two years or so, to >keep the contract!!! > >Re Gas Chromatography, here's a firm I found that may put it in our reach >(NIR notwithsatnding), again if you consider co-op'ing and hirng it out to >other BD makers >http://www.srigc.com/ Thankyou! Didn't manage to find an NIR machine too, did you? I'm sure co-op'ing and hiring it out is the way to go with this sort of gear, especially since so many people are thinking small-scale, local-level operations (which is also the way to go, IMHO). Best Keith Addison <snip> >Steve Woolcott >HarvestEnergy >Sydney Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
