Hello again Thor It's odd that there's so much talk of people being so easily put off, and the uncertainties of new fuels, or of anything new, of resistance to change. Most homebrewers and especially those who campaign at state fairs and so on report quite the opposite. Chuck just hinted at that in his confessional. :-) People seem to be most enthusiastic rather than sceptical and suspicious, quite happy to take a chance. I've found that too - but not once you hit big biz and govt.
I think there're two different things here. If you go to the NBB's and the large producers' sites, you'll see that their main target is fleets. I can well imagine that fleet managers might react like this (especially when they're not informed about crucial issues like initial filtration needs!!). Maybe the two markets - commercial fleets and the general public - need a different approach. Maybe they're getting a different approach already. The NBB's and industry's corporate-type PR that they churn out hardly impacts on Joe Bloggs, and fleet managers might not spend too much time clustering round alt-energy booths at state fairs. There's a thread going through the industry view, or that portion of it we've been seeing here, that seems to confirm this. They're so worried we'll somehow pollute their precious customers, or potential customers. When are homebrewers or small-scale producers ever going to sell to fleets? Look at what Chuck said - friends, not fleets. These things are more like local coops. (And there's definitely a place for them.) Their concerns are out of place, as well as baseless, IMO. The bit about initial filters is about the only thing you really need to tell first-time buyers by way of precaution. Very few vehicles now face the rubber problem. The huge benefit of biodiesel, as opposed to SVO, is that you just put it in and go, simple as that, any diesel. What Mr and Mrs Suburbia or whatever are used to doing anyway. There's massive evidence to support the truth of this, it's easy to convince people of it, and nearly everyone likes the idea of being squeaky-green if it's not too much hassle, and dislikes the idea of Big Oil and air-pollution. It's not much of a hard-sell. I'm talking about the stuff itself, not necessarily the price - but surveys have shown that most Americans would be prepared to pay extra for greener and more economical vehicles, so maybe the price isn't such a big deal either. Though it is an issue for fleets, once again. Maybe if these people would get it into their heads that we don't deal with fleets and don't interfere with their dealings with fleets they might stop hassling us. They should be helping us, as we help them, whether inadvertently or not, but not hassling us would be a start. Re standards, I'm cross-posting a message Mark posted to Biofuel yesterday, with some good information from Todd on standards. See "Fwd: Re: pH questions, somewhat urgent". >Homebrewers can decry the evils of “Big Soy,” and the >NBB lament the perils of homebrew till the cows come >home, each side safe in its parochial domain, but it >ain’t gonna change nuthin’. If the two sides cannot >find a way to cooperate, the cause of biodiesel >suffers. The ball is in both courts. NBB needs to >clean up its act, for all the reasons mentioned in >this forum. And homebrewers/small producers, IMO need >to organize to present a coherent voice. It’s >unrealistic to expect the NBB to treat with hundreds >of independent producers individually. I don't agree with this. I don't think the ball is in both courts. I've several times mentioned what happened when I was approached by industry people wanting collaboration, and just mentioned it again in another post. I'm not the only one. We have the current example of Graham's idea of collaboration: support Big Biodiesel, join the NBB. That's bound to get biodieselers beating a path to his door. I also don't think biodieselers should organize. This decentralized, diffused, highly individualistic model works very well. It's connected in many ways, via networks like this and many others, and other, real-world networks, with resources online and accessible, and also made available in print form in various ways, well distributed. It might look like chaos, but it's not - the rather spectacular technology development this model has achieved in the last few years is proof of that (like Open Source). And it will lead (is leading) to the kind of localization of energy supply that is the path to the future, and that industry and the NBB will not accomplish. This is a different model, a new model, it's a viable model, and I don't think it should be changed. Anyway I doubt it could be. Small-scale coops and other producers forming an association of some kind is a different matter, and no bad idea. There are such things in Australia I think, maybe elsewhere. If they weren't being treated as renegades in the US it might happen there too. But I'd resist the idea that to talk to them we need to put ourselves in their shape. Attempts to organize us to present a coherent voice would, I suspect, be a shambles - I can just imagine the bickering and flame wars. Anyway it's not necessary. There's no need to deal with hundreds of independent producers individually. We're easily accessible through these networks. Even Graham sees that. He too wanted either to coopt us or put ourselves in their shape (support Big Biodiesel, join the NBB), no use at all. But look at the debate that's developed, rather in spite of him. Industry people and the NBB could be involved in this debate, and further debates, very easily, with great benefit for all, and they'd certainly be more than welcome. So what's stopping them? Anything more than their idea that we're a peril to biodiesel (ie to their fleet customers)? I don't think so. We can see from the EPA hassle over Yellow Biodiesel and so on that they think we're beneath them, not worth their notice. Andrew just said something similar. Graham's an example of it. He should be contributing to this - he wants to, but so far he's been reduced to wrestling with his preconceptions and prejudices. They need to get their act together, shake their ideas up a bit. A whole lot. The ball's in their court. For the rest, Thor, I completely agree with you. Very useful contribution once again, IMO. Thankyou. This, by the way, was what the industry guy who approached me about collaboration said, among other things: "While we have the supply, we can only go as far as demand will take us. We believe that a grassroots effort will generate this needed demand. Our production and distribution capabilities, coupled with this groundswell of public support, could actually generate, finally, mass biofuel use." Interesting, eh? He perhaps said more than he knew. But what his "proposal" amounted to was basically that we should turn our networks over to him and put him in charge. His imagination wouldn't take him any further than wanting to coopt us. Regards Keith >Keith, Graham, and everyone, > >Some ideas as a follow-up. If NBB and others are >concerned that consumers will be put off by poor >quality biodiesel and/or the improper use/preparation >for use of good quality biodiesel, then perhaps >someone should put together a buying guide. A while >back someone, Tom Leue I believe, talked about >publishing a comprehensive how-to guide for practicing >and would-be homebrewers. [As an aside, does that >term “homebrew” have a clear definition?] But a guide >for people looking to use biodiesel may prove more >helpful in terms of reducing the uncertainty >associated with trying a new fuel. After all, >dedicated homebrewers will likely persevere, whereas >tentative first-time consumers may be easily put off. > > >Such a guide should cover basic facts (environmental, >chemical, feedstocks, etc.) about biodiesel, how to >prepare your vehicle for biodiesel use, and how to >transition to that use. As Steve Spence pointed out, >the solvent properties of biodiesel can release >petro-diesel accumulations and clog fuel filters, etc. > This should all be explained and made accessible to >the first-time buyer. It should also cover how to >“buy” fuel—who makes and/or distributes it locally, >what to look for, what questions to ask, what to >avoid, and so on. This would require agreement on >some standards. At present, could a consumer ask a >small producer, “How do you test your fuel?” and >receive a universally acceptable answer? What would >it be? ASTM standards? Gas chromatography? Finally, >such a guide ideally should address issues of >liability and warranty. > >I know that most (all?) of this information is out >there, certainly on Keith’s site and elsewhere. But >it needs to be put in a comprehensive, easy to use >format, and distributed. The point is, you want to >reach people who aren’t out looking for alternative >fuels. Perhaps some of you have read “The Tipping >Point” by Malcolm Gladwell. He talks about idea >“epidemics” and how new ideas catch on and become >widespread, or don’t. Right now, biodiesel is popular >only with “innovators”—those who are willing to take a >risk and adopt a technology because they believe that >it is the best thing to do. We need to move beyond >that to those who are more risk averse and less >interested in the “right” thing and more interested in >adopting a promising technology, the so-called “early >movers.” Once these groups buy into biodiesel, then >the mainstream follows. > >The big-picture questions such as whether there are >sufficient feed-stocks to replace a significant >portion of the diesel market are really less important >at this point. The market will sort things out; the >point is to push the expansion of biodiesel as far as >it can go. Nobody knows where that frontier is and we >never will except by pushing forward. > >A major problem, as I see it, is that no one, >including the NBB, is conducting a major promotional >campaign for biodiesel. We all know that there are a >variety of “angles” through which you could make >biodiesel appealing: energy security, enhanced farm >revenues, pollution reduction, cost savings (rather >than using natural gas in school bus fleet >conversions, for example), municipal waste reduction, >strengthening local economies, etc. etc. But the >information needs to be packaged, targeted, presented >and disseminated effectively. > >Homebrewers can decry the evils of “Big Soy,” and the >NBB lament the perils of homebrew till the cows come >home, each side safe in its parochial domain, but it >ain’t gonna change nuthin’. If the two sides cannot >find a way to cooperate, the cause of biodiesel >suffers. The ball is in both courts. NBB needs to >clean up its act, for all the reasons mentioned in >this forum. And homebrewers/small producers, IMO need >to organize to present a coherent voice. It’s >unrealistic to expect the NBB to treat with hundreds >of independent producers individually. > >Some further actions to consider: >1) The above mentioned “guide to purchasing >biodiesel.” > >2) Again, develop some universally agreed-upon >standards, including testing procedures. I may draw >flak for saying so (…pause…while I don my flak >jacket…), but I didn’t find the “Why Standards are >Important” article so unreasonable. Korbitz is >entirely correct, is he not, in asserting that engine >manufacturers are going to demand some sort of >fuel-quality standard. And I think it’s reasonable to >be wary of a producer who can’t describe or >characterize his/her product. The rub lies in how one >defines “describe” and “characterize.” For example, >if producer couldn’t tell me what kind of feedstock he >was using, that would raise a flag. What we have to >do is to make achieving that standard possible for >producers of all sizes. Keith, the link you provided >to the Leonardo Test Kit was a great example of >accessible testing. > >Remember, too, that a standard can include lots of >other things besides just fuel quality. You can do an >LCA (life cycle assessment) for biodiesel production, >which could, for example, measure embodied energy. >Such an assessment would favor WVO stock and local >production. > >By the way, it’s interesting that NBB-titled article >“Perils of the Homebrew” is really addressing >potentially faulty production procedures, and not a >general indictment of homemade biodiesel. It's almost >a primer FOR the homebrewer. I find it telling that >the NBB read it through their particular lens as >describing inherent (irremediable?) flaws in homebrew. > Or, more cynically, perhaps they just saw some stray >“ammo” to load into their anti-small producer cannon. >Either way, it’s shameful and, when you read >carefully, fairly transparent propaganda. They really >should remove that title. If I were Legge I’d be >pretty ticked off. > >3) Some sort of certification program? This has >worked in organic agriculture pretty well (and yes I >realize that it’s in danger of being co-opted by >agribusiness via USDA so let’s not go there). But >branding and labeling is a key to consumer assurance >and acceptance, especially where there are many >producers. Of course, there are a lot of obstacles to >address and pitfalls to avoid, not the least of which >is that the process be taken over by NBB. But at some >point, as I wrote earlier, small producers are going >to have to band together to make their voice(s) heard; >a national cooperative or something similar. Sure, >there are independent go it alone types who won’t want >to participate, who won’t want to pay for the >certification, and so on. But no matter. I have >talked to organic farmers who are not certified >because of the costs and paperwork. They sell >locally, and as one woman put it, “My customers know >me and know my food. They can come on the farm and >see how I do things. They don’t need the official >seal of approval.” Same goes for homebrewers who >produce for a very local market. No certification >mark is going to replace personal experience with the >product and the producer. But when you move beyond >the confines of your neighborhood and immediate >community, commerce takes on a more complicated set of >rules. > >best to all, > >thor ------------------------ Yahoo! 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