>Trees are renewable and the lumber industry now
replants more
trees than it takes.<
The only problem with repanting trees, period, that
i'm shocked no one has mentioned (unless i missed it), is that the earth in a
particular area can only support 4-5 generations of trees before the soil is
completely exhausted. Trees take more nutrients out of the soil to grow than
just about anything else, and after several generations they will NOT grow any
longer. So yeah, replanting after clear cutting is nice and all, but after a few
times at the the soil stops growing... anyhting...
And as far as deforestation goes, i'm more worried
about places outside developed countries where no one really cares if trees are
replanted. A lot of the slash and burn taking place in the rainforest
is regular old people who are trying to grow food or make money, clearing land
for cattle and farms. Those people don't replant trees, and they aren't
part of a multibnation company with lots of enviromental regulations to uphold.
_Chris N
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 11:55
AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] How many trees
were killed to build your home ?
Hi Hakan;
100% in agreement with all of that.
Clearcutting IS bad, I thought I made that distinction. It is also
true that clearcutting does not hurt bears or elk. Selective cutting
and even the use of helicopters to remove the odd massive tree are being
used which is normally cost prohibitive. But then again I guess my
attitude is that basing everything on dollar cost is not the right
attitude for how to live in this world. I bet lumber is more
expensive in areas where selective logging is being carried out as the
norm. But that is a good thing and makes people less wasteful when
it impacts thier pocket book. WRT your comments r.e. the treatment of
animals yes and factory farming techniques are easy to ignore when your
meat is only seen as a nicely packaged 'commodity' on the store shelf
rather than the reality of inhumane treatment animals experience in thier
short lives at our hands. We just don't look carefully enough at
what we are doing and we are encouraged not to.
Joe
Hakan
Falk wrote:
> > Joe, > > Only a couple of
complementary things, > > The Elk an Moose also like clear cut,
but they are very bad for > forest management. They eat the top of the
newly planted trees. > > Clear cuts are also bad, since it often
result in that the top soil > is washed down the streams and over
fertilize them. this in its > turn results in greater vulnerability to
the acid rains from industrial > areas, that kills our lakes. The only
reason for clear cut, is the > adoption to modern
machinery. > > Proper forest management was developed in Southern
Germany > around 200 years ago and was implemented in Sweden 150
years > ago. It has proven its viability, but clear cut was not a part
of the > those methods. > > Why we get a large amount of
bushes etc. in clear cuts, is not > because of more sunlight, it is
because a lack of pines to control > the vegetation. The pine tree is
releasing chemicals from the needles > it drops, that limit the under
vegetation and give the pines the > space and nutrition to grow.
It is their way of fighting the competition > and only allow species
that are good for them. > > Fires have always been a natural part
of the forest cycle, to keep > the ground relatively clean and add
nutrients. This is also done in > good forest management, which starts
to be a thing of the past and > had to give way for the use of large
machines. > > All of this and much more, are to be found in the
biofuel archives > from earlier extensive discussions. No need to repeat
it in full. > > Harvesting properly managed forests for building
material, has been > proven viable for more than 150 years. We are also
"killing" plants > for food like bread etc. and the way the subject
provoke is misleading > and ignorant. We even "kill" animals to eat, but
the real abuse is not > that we kill them, it is often worse with the
way we let them live. > > Hakan > > > > At
04:15 PM 7/6/2005, you wrote: > >> Hi
Chris; >> >>> >>> >>> >>>>
<>Granted a mature forest supports a >>>>
<>different ecology than a second growth but for instance studies
have >>>> <>shown that there is more food for bears in a
clearcut zone than >>>> there
is >>>> >>>> in a mature
forest.< >>>> >>> >>> >>>
i don't see the relevance of this. you could make the same argument
>>> for >>> garbage dumps. does that mean we
should be sending all these huge >>> barges full
of >>> waste to the canadian wilderness? who conducted these
studies? and >>> who funded >>>
them? >>> >>> >> Well here in Canada there is
a very strong movement for the >> preservation of wildlife habitat
and bears are a favorite focus >> point. The welfare of bears seems
to have become a symbol of >> environmental awareness for some
folks, so much so that due to >> restrictions in hunting regulations
we have a situation in northern >> Ontario where bears are
litterally trying to break in to people's >> houses. There is
a misguided notion that clearcutting forests puts >> the bear
population at risk and this is clearly an example of public >>
misinformation which is gladly exploited by those who would like to
>> see all logging in this country put to an end. I admit I
don't know >> about the details of the studies I mentioned but I can
get >> references. I am speaking from experience though. I spend a
lot of >> time roaming around the forests of this country and I have
come >> across bears many times and often enough to have a general
sense of >> the likelihood and frequency of such encounters in
a remote forest >> of Canada be it hardwood, softwood or
boreal. Let me tell you >> walking around in a clearcut in
northern B.C. is a different >> experience where it is routine to
see bears EVERY DAY and often >> several times a day, so much so
that it requires a different attitude >> to being out there.
Clearcutting results in a more plentiful food >> supply for bears so
much so that they are beginning to overpopulate >> which is also not
natural and is a problem in itself ( for people AND >> bears).
I used this example not to say that clearcutting is good but >>
rather just to illustrate that there are misconceptions about the >>
lumber industry destroying habitat and threatening the extinction of
>> bears which are pervasive and obviously untrue. I guess I
can't >> blame ecoterrorist mouthpieces like David Suzuki for using
the same >> fear mongering and disinformation tactics to arouse us
that the >> wealthy commonly use to keep us all hypnotized with our
faces in the >> food trough of excess. But I don't have to
like it. >> >>> >>> >>> forest
fires have been sending co2 into the atmosphere for millenia, >>>
but that >>> isn't what has precipitated global warming.
furhtermore, in the >>> case of >>> north america,
fire has been one of the primary evolutionary >>> forces.
the >>> ecosystem of this continent has a sort of co-dependency
with fire; >>> sort of like a >>> purging/renewal
mechanism. in fact, there are certain conifers >>> which
need the >>> high tempatures of a wildfire for their cones to open
and release >>> the seeds. >>> >> Yes the
Jack Pine cone requires heat to release it's seeds and after >> a
fire a similar thing happens to the burnt area due to opening up >>
the forest floor to sunlight as what happens after mature trees are
>> removed although the ground is not torn up and looking like an
ugly >> wound on the earth as a clearcut does. ( If you've never
seen one up >> close you can't imagine how ugly it is). Many
scrub plants and berry >> bushes suddenly shoot up where they
couldn't grow before due to lack >> of light. You are right that
fire does beneficial things but my point >> was that something
useful to human life is also lost and we still >> have the need for
it so we will still take it from somewhere else >> resulting in
deforestation in two places. If we were to go in and >>
selectively remove the largest trees which are most likely to get a
>> lightning strike and have the most board feet of lumber we can
reduce >> the loss to fire, keep that CO2 sequestered, and
make use of the >> wood simultaneously. More and more this is
becoming an approach the >> logging industry is taking. It is
more costly than clearcutting and >> hence would result in an
increase in luber costs for the consumer >> which is something I
eagerly applaud. I smile when I consider the >> day when our
cost of living will skyrocket in this society. As it >>
should. >> >> Having said this I also want to say that I
agree we should set asside >> certain areas like the old growth
coastal rain forests with the huge >> douglas firs and sitka spruce
that escaped the last glaciation and >> are something truely
wonderful to behold and spend time in just as we >> do with other
natural wonders. >> >>> >>> >>> i
don't know about this, but i've kind of always assumed that a
plant's >>> 'oxygen cycle' and 'co2 cycle' pretty much cancel each
other out. >>> but there's no >>> denying that
trees sequester large quantities of carbon (breaking >>> down co2
to >>> do so, no?). >>> >> Yeah if only
humans were as smart as plants........ >> >> Joe >>
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