I think you miss the point Tom.
It's not anti-trust that is the predominant problem with concerted
business. And anti-trust is almost the least of concerns when you look
at the jigsaw puzzle in its conglomerate whole.
As for remaining starry eyed? If that's what you want, just keep a handy
supply of bathtub blotter around and all will hopefully be alright with
the world.
On the other hand, if it's change you want, then you are required to
register yourself as a change agent.
There is no middle ground, more or less.
As for Perot? He saw business and government for what each are worth, as
well as how both can be virtually worthless if sound financial practices
aren't adhered to. Whether or not he had personal disdain for another
person or politician is and was beside the point.
As for large budget deficits being "bad for the wealthy?" I guess it all
depends if how you calculate wealth, Tom - whether you calculate it on
quarterly returns, balance sheets, hard currency or credit rating.
The wealthy have theirs by primarily one means - the mainstream middle
and "lesser" class. Diminish the cash cow in large or small fashion and
eventually the wealthy are no longer what they thought, hoped or expected.
As well, when the cash cow has been bled dry, the bones are bleached,
and the national debt remains in the balance, just what is it that you
expect the "wealthy" to do? What is it you expect government to do?
Let me guess. The government will pick their nose and the wealthy will
continue to eat bon bons while the country is forclosed upon by foreign
lien holders.
Think again Tom. When the cucumber resembles nothing more than a
shriveled pickle of itself, the last standing will be bilked for all
their worth as a result of past failures and long lack of "insight."
Me thinks you're still living in a "drive-thru," auto-rewind,
lecture-room mentality, not one that finds ways to envisage eventual
reality without necessarily experiencing it.
Todd Swearingen
Tom Irwin wrote:
Greetings Todd,
I agree with you almost entirely. Occassionally the elctorate gets a
group of anti business folks into power that enact things like
anti-trust laws to curb the worst excesses of business. This hasn't
happened for a number of years but I remain the starry eyed idealist
that it might happen again within my lifetime. Today it's more like
rich folks disagreeing on the path the peasants should trod. Take the
case of Ross Perot running for President. It seems to me he ran just
cause he didn't like Bush I for some reason. I don't know what that
reason was but it would be interesting to find out. Of course I don't
entirely rule out the possibility, however remote, that he actually
thought large federal deficits were bad for the wealthy.
Tom Irwin
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
*Sent:* Wed, 10 Aug 2005 07:56:03 -0300
*Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...
Tom,
Government is business. But not necessarily or precisely going
about the
same business of any specific special interest businesses. More to
the
tune of going about the business of all business.
How many times have you found yourself in the middle of a Freudian
slip,
such as "In this company (country)...?"
Think about it. The structure is precisely the same, with labor,
middle
and upper level "management" and the occassional "stock holder's"
meeting (elections). In the interim, seldom does management change
anything to the liking or needs of labor unless mandatory to
prevent a
serious disruption of production flow. Even then, as in the case
of oil,
they hold out to the last possible moment rather than seizing
available
opportunities.
Call it poor leadership. Call it an attempt to maximize current
infrastructure and investment dollar. Call it whatever you wish. But
government is business, with one of its goals to insure its own
existance to the best of its capabilities.
Todd Swearingen
"The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government."
Tom Irwin wrote:
> Hi Todd,
>
> You are such a hairsplitter. Big government or big corporate
> agribusinesses they ane now synonyms at least in the G8 world. I
know
> your just endeavoring to be accurate.
>
> Big Smile,
>
> Tom Irwin
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<javascript:kh6k0("new","[EMAIL PROTECTED]")>]
> *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
<javascript:kh6k0("new","Biofuel@sustainablelists.org")>
> *Sent:* Tue, 09 Aug 2005 19:57:35 -0300
> *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...
>
> Not necessarily.
>
> More like the big hand(s) of soybean interest(s) manipulating a
> set of
> controls to as best as possible "guarantee" that they get their
> research, testing and investment monies back. Forget that the monies
> they used are from a per bushel tax on beans, designated for use to
> advance the production and consumption of soy, which biodiesel does.
>
> What they want is the tax money to operate off of and then after
they
> spend it they want it replenished.
>
> The government just went along in the processing of incorporating
> biodiesel as an EPA registered fuel.
>
> Then again, on the other hand, the soybean interests could have
> kept the
> Tier I & II health effects studies for their use only as well as
> applicable only to soybean oil. But that's not how it ended up, as
> fuel
> from all oil and fat feedstocks fall under the rubric of
"biodiesel."
>
> One could say that the EPA lobbied to keep the gate open a little
> wider
> than strictly soy, which in turn served the public's interest rather
> than specifically the special interest.
>
> Nobody is talking.
>
> Todd Swearingen
>
>
> Tom Irwin wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Do I detect the big hand of government squeezing the small
business
> > owner for corporate America here?
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *From:* Ric Cuchetto [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<javascript:kh6k0("new","[EMAIL PROTECTED]")>
> ]
> > *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
<javascript:kh6k0("new","Biofuel@sustainablelists.org")>
>
> > *Sent:* Tue, 09 Aug 2005 12:50:42 -0300
> > *Subject:* RE: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...
> >
> > ASTM testing is at the end of the process. We are also
> struggling with
> > taxes and licensing and posting bond related to transporting the
> waste
> > veggie oil. There is quite a bit of resistance to these
> technologies.
> > Truckers, renderers and petro companies do a much better job of
> > lobbying
> > than the grass roots folks. Even forward-thinking folks trying to
> > build
> > methanizers or biodiesel plants find that the insurance,
> licensing and
> > certification make it difficult to justify the costs. Let's not
> > even start
> > with the transportation (fuel) taxes.
> >
> > Commercialization is a big hurdle compared to dumpster diving and
> > making
> > fuel for your buddies.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Ric Cuchetto
> > Northern california
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<javascript:kh6k0("new","[EMAIL PROTECTED]")>
>
> >
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<javascript:kh6k0("new","[EMAIL PROTECTED]")>
>
> > ]
> > On Behalf Of TarynToo
> > Sent: August 09, 2005 08:04
> > To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
<javascript:kh6k0("new","Biofuel@sustainablelists.org")>
>
> >
> > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...
> >
> > Hi Mike,
> > Can you (or others) expand on this please? How much of a fortune?
> > I've
> > been searching for info on the tax and regulatory issues of
> producing
> > and selling BD on a small scale. I wouldn't mind joining or
> > starting a
> > co-op, but cooperatively-minded folk are thin on the ground in
South
> > Florida.
> >
> > Thanks, Taryn
> >
> > On Aug 9, 2005, at 7:25 AM, Mike Weaver wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Also, you can't set up a Biodiesel plant in the US. It's
> illegal to
> > > sell fuel unless you have it tested by ASTM, which costs a
> fortune.
> > > You can brew your own or as part of a coop.
> > >
> > > -Mike
> >
> >
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