Re: [Biofuel] Rural energy problem nad Big oil

[Pannirselvam P.V]

 Dear Subramanian

      Thank you very much for bringing here the real problems there in India
 Every where  the oil companies are against the renewable energy.The problem is  the very big countries such as  India , china , Brazil  need not follow the  model of the  other countries  expecting  oil companies will solve the rural  problems.

  Here in Brazil in the Amazonian rain forest area  the diesel  price is  8 times more than in the other place.In rural area of the India  farmer need to plant rice in the night. some place more than 50 percent   of  the population  do not know TV and what the energy.In India the energy  is given to many and make  energy cut .India can never become developed country with energy cut .

 If you have well  followed regularly our list members thinking , the  Keith  our list coordinator  effort  is  not to separate the political , technical , economical problems  related with bio fuel.

 If you are not able to help the small farmer to produce their energy , most of the  younger  well qualified  PhD from IIT will go to the country where there is energy such as Newzealand, Australia They will be  pushed to work in the decentralised  small cogeneration  unit  making fuel, food , feed from biomass .
This has happened to my life  and my professor and friend  from IIT Delhi are very proud that  the best Biochemical engineering graduate from IIT   all have got employment in other countries , but this is not sustainable for India as the bio oil company do not care  nothing for the same.

  Making one fuel  for farmer need cannot be considered as crime  as very well debated here for very long time  and several farmers make here in Brazil  alcohol and sell to oil  using microdistillary too in Brazil and they fill the car too at their own risk.This also true for BioD.
Our list  the biggest dynamic list in internet.Why ? Here  we make debate on complex subject  to  arrive at practical and simple solution.Thus biofuel  use to indian farmer can be solved  by methods  well documented by Keith

Biofuel at Journey to Forever (JTF)
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html


 You know very well that the government  in India is not able  to stop illegal alcohol production .
People , like you need to put make E10  AND BIOD and put in motor BIKES , CAR  AND SEE THE SUSTAINABILITY  rather  than  expecting Indian oil corporation and Indian government will solve the problems.

   See Keith work in JTF  files , showing all home made decentralised , self help  work is possible  with fotos  bringing here  the international experience and I agree with you that this biofuel  not the  solution for all the place.As thr  education  and democracy work, I am sure that  India is moving correctly in this fields and wish the younger well educated  generation change the  poverty  and food problems due  energy crisis.The country has research on Bullock cart in this decades, surel can set examples too decentralised biofuel production especially  in rural areas.
 There in india if  the chief ministers of the states are winning the election by the promise of free power for farmer , they should also bother about  making  the law  first to get away the nergy problems , other wise  the future will be dark for all there.Thus the problem is sustainablity  and also  the problem is the same as many developed and under developed one.
 
 Dear subramaniam you can help a lot , if you invite Keith there , make seminars , you see the The energy block out , energy crysis  solved   by the farmers 



Thanking you


 
  

sd
Pannirselvam



 

On 9/11/05, subramanian D.V <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Dear Mr. PanneerSelvam,

I've been reading your inputs to this forum quite for sometime and your enthusiasm is really contagious! but there are problems for individuals  for producing alcohol.

The process is simple enough for small scale (back yard) production which you recommend. raw material such as sweet sorghum and sugar beet can be grown ; the economics of production is well known to those in the field. Special strains of sweet sorghum are available in National Research Institutes in Hyderabad, as well as at Indian Institute of Agricultural Research . But.....

The moment I announce that I'm going to make my own fuel ( for personal use) half a dozen Govt agencies will raid my place ! Production of ethyl alcohol is not possible without Govt license (which is not easy to get for an individual), payment of several duties and taxes and bribes on the side.

Even if the farmers make alcohol on the sly, on second thoughts they would rather drink it than use for fuel. You know the types in India.

On the commercial scale Indian Sugar Mills Assocn have half a million litres of surplus ethanol for E05 in the whole country but then the Indian oil corporation is still dragging its feet issuing purchase tenders  for ethanol.

So these are the ground realities here. Still I keep hoping it will change in due course.

 

Regards,

 

Subramanian 

 

 

"Pannirselvam P.V" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

      Dear  Manick

    I am native of South India.It is very true that  Malaysia and India,the fuel alcohol can be mis used as the drinks. Brazil , where  I live now ,here too are  making  alcohol for local  consume and exportation  as  the  alcoholic drinks and fuel made from sugarcane and fruits as both are the needs
    In south India  where there is always  power cut  expected  more than 30  porcent    , locally made distilled home made alcohol, the  municipal  government can buy and use for transport and power generation. You are showing the real problem of  corrupt practice  there .Thus local use of ethanol for fuel   instead of commercial use  can  solve the powercut there.This is need decentralised development of  municipality.Only private company need to do all , under corrupted  some political party  not  bothered about real problem of energy development.

   Based on traditional local home made alcohol  , India can produce  as much as  Brazil (2 bilhoes  liter of  alcohol for food and fuel) and can solve the energy crisis.The farmer need to put light in the night and make plantation in India where  as the  farmer from USA, France  and Europe  has  government  financial help.

Manick , surely India  and can  make  possible  the home made decentralised  bio ethanol that thus make using pot  , to put in their small  motorised bicycle , thus making them independent   to get away the poverty and all corrupted  petroleum business , which is the root cause of  the poverty, making people dependence on imported fuel that they can not pay.

   I wish to request  Keith  to publish  via our list members from India about the low cost pot distillation, as this so simple  and low cost ,any one can made fuel in their home based on this  pot made tradicional alcohol which  had made and making  making story of so many tragedy  and death of alcohol addiction .But this bad story can be made to be real a solution for the energy crysis

sd
Pannirselvam
 

On 9/10/05, Manick Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:

Tq Chris,

My reason for posting is to stimulate interest to convince other group members to undertake ethanol and power generation projects.I am not in a position to do them here in Malaysia or India, countries full of skull-duggering and danger of losing all the investment due to fraudulent practices by the unscrupulous, without recourse to justice. I could give pages and pages of bad business ethics. It is very bad here which is the main reason this country is in languishing the  doldrums. The best I can do is to convince members that these concepts are viable and that there is great need to now to find alternatives to petroleum fuels. Cheers

Manickh

Chris lloyd <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:

> hey! i just remembered, homebrew champagne makers are cautioned to make
> sure
that all yeast has been killed before finla bottling, lest continued
fermentation generate so much pressure that it pops the cork. <

That cannot be right as to do so would leave you with flat champagne, you
need the secondary fermentation to make any wine/beer fizzy. Champagne
bottles have their corks wired on anyway. Chris.



Wessex Ferret Club
www.wessexferretclub.co.uk



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Pagandai V Pannirselvam
Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN
Departamento de Engenharia Química - DEQ
Centro de Tecnologia - CT
Programa de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ
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Pagandai V Pannirselvam
Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Norte - UFRN
Departamento de Engenharia Química - DEQ
Centro de Tecnologia - CT
Programa de Pós Graduação em Engenharia Química - PPGEQ
Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos - GPEC

Av. Senador Salgado Filho, Campus Universitário
CEP 59.072-970 , Natal/RN - Brasil

Residence :
Av  Odilon gome de lima, 2951,
   Q6/Bl.G/Apt 102
   Capim  Macio
EP 59.078-400 , Natal/RN - Brasil

Telefone(fone ) ( 84 ) 3215-37690 Ramal210
                            32171557
Telefone(fax) ( 84 ) 3215-3770
            residencia 32171557

             Cellular  84  88145083    

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Biofuel mailing list
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