Robert, You were right before, now you got it wrong. Now I have to ask you to read up on the world wars and the influence from the US finance powers. Iraq was plunged into the Iranian war by US and was not really successful, so the US occupation got rid of a failing leader. You are right in that before US took over the role as manipulator, the French was involved in a lot of wars.
Hakan At 15:28 07/10/2005, you wrote: >Sorry...need more coffee...previous post should >read..."Europe has plunged every generation into war WITHOUT US help..." > >Robert > > >---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- >From: "radema" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 06:36:37 -0600 > > > > > > >With all due respect, The USA is a highly > visible consumer. Their arrogance and "might > is right" policies are a natural target. We > would be remiss to forget their considerable > humanitarian contribution (no not war). Europe > has plunged every generation into war with US > help. Not only is the US an engine for > profits, but their trust laws are far stricter > than Japan (MITI), China, Middle East, South > America, SE Asia, Balkans, or the EU. When the > new world order takes place - and I agree it > will as manufacturing capacity moves offshore - > we will see super-power consumers (China, India) that DO NOT HAVE trust laws. > > > >Robert > > > >---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > >From: Hakan Falk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > >Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 13:58:26 +0200 > > > >> > >>Hi Tom and Bede, > >> > >>Maybe the coming oil crises will be a blessing > >>for our earth. Because the moment oil is no loner > >>available, we have to produce fuel and plastics > >>etc. from other sources. If all playing on a > >>level field, the possibilities are more equal and > >>the wealth will be more distributed. US had the > >>advantage to be the first oil economy and that > >>the large oil resources have been in less > >>populated countries, which could be "developed" by US interests. > >> > >>Next step will be a development of the coal > >>resources and US, Russia and China have maybe 70% > >>of known resources and this time US will not be > >>able to manipulate. Since the coal will be > >>expensive, the rest of the world will be > >>competing with renewable agriculture based > >>alternatives on more equal terms. To have any > >>kind of possibilities to survive, coal has to > >>carry large cost for sequestering of polluting > >>chemicals and gases. This especially if the > >>hydrogen economy becomes a reality. The handling > >>of nuclear waste will be a minor problem, > >>compared with what the future generations will face > >> > >>The wealth and powers to be, will have a totally > >>different structure than today and none of us can > >>really imagine how the future will look. We will > >>not participate in this future, but our attitudes > >>and work of today, will be of utmost importance. > >>It is now that we can effect the outcome and if > >>we do not take Global warming and other things > >>very serious, our future generations will carry > >>the punishment. It is no risks of that we can be > >>to cautious and careful, because it will be a > >>possibility to sustain the future if we follow > >>this principles anyway. The world is probably on > >>the edge and it does not take much to tip the balance towards disasters. > >> > >>Nothing will be able to solve without a strict > >>energy efficiency, which also will be the best > >>economical regime. It is amazing that US is using > >>3 times and Canada 4 times more energy in their > >>buildings, than Sweden does. This after climate > >>corrections. With dirt cheap oil, it was > >>expensive, but with todays oil prices, it has > >>become very economical. This is also something > >>that cannot be "occupied by military force and is closer to sustainable. > >> > >>Hakan > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>At 12:29 07/10/2005, you wrote: > >>>with the rising cost of oil these will > eventually become valuable resources, > >>>Its also only a matter of time before we start mining our rubbish dumps! > >>> > >>>There's also a French company i saw on Beyond > >>>2000, it had to do with turning tires back into its raw components. > >>>once again once bought back, it cost more to > >>>process than the end products where worth. > >>>-----Original Message----- > >>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tom Irwin > >>>Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 11:07 PM > >>>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > >>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price > of Packaging/Sending the Message > >>> > >>>Hi Hakan and all, > >>> > >>>One of the real problems is not having an > >>>economic system that accounts for the lack of > >>>degradability or environmental consequences of > >>>products produced. This is a world wide problem > >>>not limited to the U.S. More than 10 years ago I > >>>worked on a research team to make a > >>>biodegradable plastic. We accomplished this and > >>>had formulations that worked in most plastic > >>>processing equipment. Of course, polyethylene > >>>was $0.26 per pound and our formulations were > >>>about a dollar more per pound. We had a > >>>wonderful niche market product that couldn´t > >>>support us. The same is true for PET. There´s a > >>>company that I worked for that holds a patent > >>>for recycling waste PET chemically back to > >>>original components, bottles from bottles with > >>>no residual contamination. Transportation costs > >>>of the light plastics kill this one. Many > >>>industries have solutions but they are not > >>>economical with the present low cost of the > >>>plastics they would replace or recycle. > >>> > >>>Tom Irwin > >> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Biofuel mailing list > >>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > >>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >> > >>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > >>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >> > >>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz > list archives (50,000 messages): > >>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > >> > >> > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Biofuel mailing list > >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz > list archives (50,000 messages): > >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuel mailing list >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
