Here Brazilian agricultural research org has successfully finished a simple pyrolysis of vegetable oil to be implemented in rural Amazonian areas , which involves , simple heating of the vegetable oil using wood then condensing the gas , obtaining biofuel just like BioD.The tractor has been showed to be running without any problems.
Thus thermal pyrolysis is an cracking process, which Manick is doing for wood to make ethanol , the process is used to make reusable sugar based catalysts.
Low temperature pyrolysis is what happend to the cooked and the used oil .
I am referring not the drastic pyrolysis and i hope , now you understand what I mean by pretreatment process just like the micro wave oven can give the best results and simplify the process
Thanking you
sd
Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ola Pannir
>Ola,
>
> Keith , Manick and all.
>
> Even though , the debate , doughts go on for the long time
>here about this topic , it is not yet clear to me about the real
>value of obtaining the new catalyst from ash.And I suppose also
>that the same for some of our list members too .
>As Manick has pointed out that the potassium carbonate is the major
>one in ash ,
It varies quite widely. There's usually more calcium than potassium.
>It will be interesting some one here bringing the information about
>the average chemical composition of the ash.As I understand that
>the carbonate can be also act as the catalyst,
That's why I said it might not be a problem: "Trouble is the content
of wood ash varies widely. Another problem is that the KOH is mixed
with potassium carbonate, and some sodium too. Which may not be as
big a problem as it sounds."
>may be the combination of the several non metallic Na, K, Ca ,
>Silica can be more powerful catalyst too, thus making the
>explanation to the good result's reported , even the reaction
>going under room temperature. How ever reproducing the result with
>the use of the ash is another problem too to get the results
>reproduced.
It should be okay if you calibrate it each time against standard NaOH
or standard KOH, so you can see how much to use.
If it works, there's certainly an advantage in not having to buy
catalyst and getting it instead from a readily available sustainable
source that you can provide for yourself.
> As used WVO has been already cracked , can be also another path
>to make the low temperature catalyst , any heating the oil to
>remove the water is an pretreatment needed, thus optimization of
>this heating process , like the very slight pyrolysis shown to be
>effective to crack and separate out the glycerin with very little
>loss , yet to be achieved in practice .
I'm not sure what you mean. How do you use pyrolysis this way?
> Thus the combined KOH making from ash , the pretreatment of
>the soft pyrolysis by heating the oil and light cracking to
>separate out glycerin as pretreatment, then the low temperature
>catalysis can be very promising new root with new low cost
>catalyst , with out need for reusable costlier catalyst. This root
>can be well easily home made by any poor man too.
We're doing all that except the cracking, which I don't understand.
>No need for methoxy combination of alcohol with catalysts.
That's where you lose me.
>Thus the data's available to all of us show that such simple
>solutions to the complex problems may be possible.
Simple solutions are certainly possible.
> Let all of us share our views. If simple method can work , we
>may end up the war based on non renewable , as the people can make
>the bio fuel as simple as to make the soap , or salt , with out the
>need for big investments and machines , but involving the art as
>well as social technology based on our collaborative work , with
>no need for huge machine and instrumentation , thus we all can
>transfer this process to all the place where there is real need
>.This new process can be reality , if all our list sharing capacity
>very high.
I think it IS a reality, without a new process.
> More experimental result's are needed using slaked lime converting
>the carbonates into more powerful , practical catalyst for rural
>areas.
It might not be necessary if the combination of KOH and potassium
carbonate found in wood ash is found to work effectively.
Best wishes
Keith
>Thus the method pointed out by Manick can prove to more useful to
>render to come over practical catalyst .
>
> Some conclusions are needed on this very long new catalyst thread
>of very important topics.Some patents are available.we need to bring
>here all the patents some about carbonate too Will this can be
>effective or not .
>
>Expect good results in this new process and new catalytic root.
>
>
>SD
>
>Pannirselvam.
>
>
>
>
>Manick Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Hello Keith,all,
>The stuff you describe has a lot of potassium carbonate which must
>be converted to potassium hydroxide to make soap from veg oils. This
>can be done by boiling with slaked lime. You will get liquid soap.
>Get solid soap by washing this a few times with salt solution. I did
>not carry out this reaction but my dad did during WW2 when we were
>under Japanese regime here in Malaysia. He was running a soap
>factory in Buntong, Ipoh and the soap was first distributed to
>residents from the town field opposite St.Michael's School as any
>Ipohite will testify. Although I was much younger I can vouch thatit
>was indeed hard soap like any other which they were able to cut from
>a block by using detachable boxes with slits and steel wires. May my
>good dad RIP.
>manickh
>
>Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>From another list, four years ago:
>
> >>>>Okay, try this:
> >>>>
> >>>>Find some used drums or other containers, & spend a day running
> >>>>around seeing how much used cooking grease you can obtain for
> >>>>free from resatraunts. Once you get home with the stuff, strain
> >>>>it through a couple thicknesses of old bath towells. Then add 2
> >>>>cups LYE (leached from wood ashes), & 1 pint alcohol (moonshine
> >>>>etc.) to each 5 gallons, stir well. Allow to set over night to
> >>>>settle, then siphon the liquid off, leaving the thick glycerin in
> >>>>the bottom of the container.
> >>>>
> >>>>This stuff makes a perfect substitute for DEISEL FUEL (I've run
> >>>>one of my tractors on it for a decade!), & if you'll add some
> >>>>kerosene deodorizer, it works great in lamps & kerosene heaters
> >>>>as well!
>
>LOL!
>
>The person who sent it to me disagreed and referred him to JtF, but
>the guy with the undead tractor told him it was disinformation.
>
>Anyway, I guess that's the margin for screwing it up with
>experimental wood ash lye catalyst, it'll take at least ten years not
>to kill your tractor yet. Even a PDi should be okay for the legendary
>dozens of miles. Always look on the bright side of life, ta-dum.
>
>This is what Mother Earth News said long ago when it was still Mother
>Earth News:
>
>"Punch drain holes in the bottom of a five-gallon can, place a
>five-inch layer of straw inside, fill the container with ashes, and
>mount it on top of another five-gallon can. Then pour water into the
>upper vessel and, as it trickles through (a slow process when done
>correctly), add a little more each day until the lower can is nearly
>filled with . . . homemade lye water.
>
>"Boil the solution in the lower can until a chunk of potato will
>float on its surface and then use it in your favorite soap recipe or
>in any other way that you need dissolved lye around the homestead.
>(And be careful! It can burn just as badly as the lye you buy in a
>store.) "
>
>
>
>Best
>
>Keith
>
>
>
> > >> > > -----Original Message-----
> > >> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason &
> > >> > > Katie
> > >> > > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 4:57 PM
> > >> > > To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> > >> > > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
> > >> > >
> > >> > > my father is a forester, and is very much involved with resource
> > >> management
> > >> > > (hes the coordinator) at a forest preserve where i grew up, every
> > >> > > three
> > >> > > years a logging company is called in to thin out a small section of
> > >> > > the
> > >> > > park, and these sections are rotated every cycle. my father collects
> > >> > > the
> > >> > > tops from the trees that are removed and cuts them for firewood,
> > >> > > which
> > >> is
> > >> > > all oak, walnut, maple, cherry, and elm. would this group
>of woods be
> > >> > > a
> > >> > > suitable supply of ash for KOH? i know the article calls for
> > >> > > hardwood,
> > >> but
> > >> > > there are some non-pine varieties that dont qualify.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > anyway, im rambling. this supply would be a good way to heat an
> > >> > > alcohol
> > >> > > distillery or even just basic home heating, but there need
>not be any
> > >> real
> > >> > > waste of energy in the pursuit of wood ash, and anyone with a rain
> > >> barrel
> > >> > > can make their own KOH.
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > there are a thousand ways around any obstacle but the most
>fitting is
> > >> the
> > >> > > least obvious.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Jason
>
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