>>Wow, Ryan, you missed every point going! >> >>It's late now, all I have time for is this. Quite a remarkable thing >>to say without checking, especially since it was posted here just >>recently, and in a "PLEASE READ" message, which all members are >>obliged to read. Did you read it? > >Obviously not close enough. Isn't PLEASE READ usually reserved for >spam these days?
No. It's still reserved for moderator's messages. Eg: http://forum.osnn.net/showthread.php?t=71634 Please Read: Spam Posts - OSNN Forum I don't recall ever seeing a spam post headed PLEASE READ. I just checked 800 spam posts and none included the words "PLEASE READ" anywhere. I guess this confirms you didn't read the message. >-SNIP- > >> >>Please check this, from last week's message: >> >> >http://snipurl.com/q26x >> >biodiesel - Google Search >> > >> >http://snipurl.com/q26p >> >biodiesel mailing list - Google Search >> > >> >(Actually that's very annoying! It's NOT a biodiesel mailing list!) >> >>You're completely wrong - it IS at the top of Google, so is the >>Biofuel list, and I see nothing there about FuelMeisters or >>Crappleseeds. >> >>Which Google were you looking at? If you didn't check it first why >>did you say it with such confidence? > >I'm wrong, I suck; I wonder what my Google was smoking that day? I >speak with confidence because I KNOW I found JtF through Biodiesel >Warehouse. When I followed their link I went, "DUDE! Why was this >so hard to find! This is everything!" No explainantion, just >apologies, again, I was wrong. Okay, but I think it's kind of strange to confuse BiodieselWarehouse with Google, if that's what you did. There's nothing new about those Google results, it's been at the top for a long time. Never mind. >-SNIP- > >>You're experienced, you're an engineer ("ENGINEER"), but I'm not, >>what I know about it is just from being a list member. But I designed >>an original reactor that's now widely used, and you seem to have >>wasted at least five times as much money on a Crappleseed that you >>had to come to us to learn how to fix. >> >>What's with that? > >I've never run it yet, so its not broke. I just know from JtF what >is going to be sub-adaquate, and how to address it before it comes >up. You didn't answer the question, but never mind. >>Also this, from your reply to Fred: >> >> >... But since part of my goal is to convert others and lend >> >creditabilty, this ENGINEER needs to build a professional looking >> >system, worthy of the 8 years everybody knows I spent in college for >> >engineering. >> >>So you bought a Crappleseed that didn't work properly. > >It could have worked fine, I think not. >I just made changes based on other's experiences. No point >inventing the wheel twice. Reinventing it once. But you've certainly been reinventing wheels, see other post. >>It all seems rather disconnected, isn't it? >> >>Also, I'm sorry to have to tell you that your remarks about OPEC are >>right out of line in a multinational community such as this one, >>which includes many people from OPEC countries, and your language is >>most objectionable. Please withdraw it and apologise. > > No disrespect intended, and I've truly sorry if any was felt; but >"people" from a country are not the country. Just look at my own >for example...yikes... Accepted. But folks who want to get into biofuels in order to stick it to OPEC (or terrorists, terrorist nations, unstable Middle Eastern regimes, ragheads, sand niggers) are usually just as incapable of telling a country from its people as they are of figuring out just who's hurting them (not OPEC). Please see: http://snipurl.com/qjmv [Biofuel] Torture and/or Nuking Iran -- was Re: Poll in favor of Nukes on Iran Who gets what from imported oil? Data from OPEC (Acrobat file, 36kb) http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/OPECscut.pdf People here, including Americans, have been saying for about five years that US gas prices are way too cheap and the sooner it hits $5 the better. The OECD thinks so too (except the US), most people think so. That'd be about $6 now I suppose. > And mentioning my rear end is light compared to some of this >things I've seen here regarding the current administration of the >USA. If you say so. On the other hand, they've got rather more to do with the soaring fuel prices you're here to save yourself from than OPEC has. And if such things have indeed been said about the US administration as you claim, they've mostly been said by US citizens, which is a bit different. >But no blood, no foul; I don't take it personally. I'm here to lear >n and expect to have to wade through some muck to find the knowledge. No wading required. Your expectations are the basis of your problem (other post). Best Keith > Ryan P. > >> >>Keith Addison >>Journey to Forever >>KYOTO Pref., Japan >>http://journeytoforever.org/ >>Biofuel list owner >> >> >> >> >I'll just embed my replies below, as there are alot of little >>short answers. >> > >> > >> >>On 5/17/06, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>Hello Ryan >> >>> >> >>> > I'm building the processsor and running test batches >> >>> >simultaniously so I can shift to large scale as fast as possible. >> >>>> >> >>>You said you started the wrong way round: >> > >> >Absolutely true. But new guys don't see JtF first, they see >> >FuelMeister or somebody similar; who want to sell something to them. >> > >> >>> >> >>> >Which is demonstrated by the fact that I have my processor just >> >>> >about build and haven't done a single small batch yet...I'm a rookie. >> >>> >> > >> > >> > Thought I had it build, according to "Crappleseed", as you put it, >> >ideas. I've made changes based on JtF and my experience thus far. >> >Mostly in the addition of a vacuum/compressor pump to fill and purge >> >the main reactor vessel. Their waste water pump sucks...not in the >> >good way. Will not, not, not EVERY prime itself. >> > >> > >> >>>Well, that's what you said, we said it was the wrong way round: >> >>> >> >>>"Where do I start? -- Start with the process, NOT with the processor. >> >>>The processor comes later." >> >>>http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start >> >>> >> >>>"When you're confident that you can get good results every time, even >> >>>using oil from different sources, then it's time to scale up the >> >>>process to provide your fuel needs. Now that you have a feel for the >> >>>process and know what to expect, you'll have a much better idea of >> >>>what sort of processor you want than if you'd started off building >> >>>the processor (as many do) rather than learning the process first." >> >>>http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#moving >> > >> > >> >All true, and should be made to be Google hit #1 whenever >> >"Biodiesel" is searched for, but its not, so new guys will continue >> >to start with a processor because search engine results start with a >> >processor. Want to change that? Get JtF to the top of the list. >> > >> > >> >>> >> >>> >I can't reclaim my investment with small batches. >> >>> >> >>>Your investment? I'm quite interested in that, just at the moment. >> >>>People are always asking about costs. >> > >> > >> >Just hardware I don't already have; only money I actually spend. >> >Water heater, inductor tank, plumbing, vacuum/compressor pump, >> >beakers, graduated cylinders. The chemical supplies would go into >> >the cost/gallon of biofuel that offsets the cost/gallon of the OPEC >> >fuel. >> > >> > >> >>> >> >>>What are you costing in your investment? The cost of the processor, >> >>>let's see, that was only two 60-litre batches, it took two days, or a >> >>>few hours over a couple of days. >> >>> >> >>>Building it took much longer, I'd never built such a thing before, >> > >> > >> >I have. So far, I see nothing I've built wrong that needs to be >> >charged, just tweaked (referrence the vaccum pump again). >> > >> > >> >>>and figuring it all out first took even longer. But I'd learned >> >>>really a lot from people here on the list and I got that for nothing, >> >>>so I don't know how to cost it. >> > >> > >> > True, and this is the ONLY reason my processor has come together >> >so quickly. I've scanned every processor construction idea and have >> >pulled ideas and insights from every one to build I processor I can >> >understand. And I think that's the most important part. There are >> >alot of you running systems I don't follow, so I'm not using your >> >ideas. I need to understand my processor so I can make it work, not >> >just copy somebody else. >> > >> >>The processor works very well >> >>>though >> >>>and now lots of people have built them, >> > >> > >> >Mine has yet to be seen, but because so many have come before me, I >> >have full confidence. >> > >> > >> >>and they also got it for >> >>>nothing. If you took an eco-economist's view (which we'll all have to >> >>>take in the end), economics that can tell a sword from a plowshare, >> >>>you'd have to add all that in too somehow to be realistic about the >> >>>costs. I think that means I must be rich by now because of the free >> >>>processor and so on, and I'm not the only one. But if you take a >> >>>money economist's view, the prevailing one, sad to say, which indeed >> >>>can't tell a sword from a plowshare, it means I'm as poor as a >> >>>churchmouse, and that's the truth of it. Obviously I'm not too good >> >>>at costings, and I end up completely confused about how a person >> >>>would go about getting their investment back. Well, no need to be so >> >>>complicated about it, but it's worth a thought. >> > >> > >> > Here's the bottomline, as I see it, for how I am recuperating my >> >costs. Say I spend $500 to build a processor. Once its running, >> >I'm paying only $1 a gallon to fuel my truck ($0.70 for supplies, >> >$.30 for road tax to my state). Meaning for every gallon I burn, >> >I'm preventing the loss of $2 I would have had to spent to burn that >> >gallon of fuel. To recup. my $500, I only need to burn 250 gallons >> >of my biodiesel in situations where I would have had to purchase >> >OPEC diesel. >> > >> >>> >> >>>Do you cost your time? What do you include? That was about two months >> >>>ago you said you're a rookie. Do you include all the development time >> >>>in the meantime? Would that be just time spent making test batches, >> >>>finding and getting materials and so on? >> >>> >> >>>How about the learning curve, would you cost the time that takes? >> >>>Time spent here, for instance, or at the JtF website Biodiesel >> >>>section. If you do cost it, do you think we should cost it too, the >> >>>ones who provide it all in various ways, including many list members, >> >>>which could end up including you? Where do you draw the line? >> > >> > >> >No, because this isn't a business venture. I'm only reducing my >> >fuel costs, not producing a product to increase my income. If it >> >was for income, I would need to account for my time that could be >> >spent at another job producing income. As I said before, the only >> >thing I count as cost is money that has to flow out of my pocket to >> >build my processor. I perform only a cash flow analysis centered on >> >myself. I am increasing my Cash Flow(Out)(Misc) now to decrease my >> >Cash Flow(Out)(Fuel) later by an amount greater than my initial Cash >> >Flow(Out)(Misc). And Cash Flow (Out)(Fuel) remains at its decreased >> >level, saving me money for as long as WVO is still free. >> > >> >>> >> >>>I'd appreciate your opinion, and any others too. >> > >> > >> >And I'll share my Excel Cost Analysis Spreadsheet with anybody >>who wants it. >> > >> > >> >>> >> >>> > And it was only the first batch that I felt the (unnecessary) need >> >>> >to reprocess that I had problems with. The one following that just >> >>> >took a little extra washing (7 instead of 3-4) and the last one >> >>> >turned out absolutely perfectly. I put the sum of the second two >> >>> >batches in my truck yesterday morning; all 0.4 gallons (~1.5L)! But >> >>> >it was $1.18 I didn't have to spent at the pump! >> >>> >> >>>What will you do with the $1.18? >> > >> > >> >Be happy I didn't put it in my fuel tank! >> > >> > >> >>> >> >>> > This weekend; my first WVO test batches. Hooray! >> >>> >> >>>Good luck. >> >>> >> >>>Best >> >>> >> >>>Keith >> >>> >> >>> >> > >> >Doing WVO batches is my "different sources" next step toward; >> > >> >>"When you're confident that you can get good results every time, >> >>**even using oil from different >sources**, then it's time to scale >> >>up the process to provide your fuel needs." >> > >> >Its a linear progression; >> > >> >1) Confidence in 1L clean oil test batches. >> > -You know the basic process. >> > >> >2) Confidence in 1L waste oil test batches. >> > -You can perform titration and adjust the process for WVO variables. >> > >> >3) Confidence in small WVO batches (10-20L). >> > -You have build your processor correctly. >> > >> >4) Confidence in medium WVO batches (30-50L). >> > -You can scale up correctly >> > >> >5) Confidence in full capacity WVO batches (100L). >> > -Tell OPEC to kiss your fuzzy butt, you don't need their >> >stinking diesel anymore. >> > >> > I'm starting step 2 this weekend. I'll let you all know how it >> >goes. If all goes well, I may be to step 5 by July. >> > >> > Ryan _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
